Lend me your Apostapowers, trying to help someone out of the org

by wanderlustguy 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • wanderlustguy
    wanderlustguy

    Ok, I'm finally starting some dialogue with my brother, I've let him know that I have questions that no one can answer, and he says to send them over so he can either answer them or get answers, and that no question is disallowed or "apostate". He sent me an article (from 08.15.04 WT, thanks Blondie!) via e-mail, on which I pointed out one simple question on reply to him, which he has replied to. I just received it a few minutes ago and thought it a good idea to share this with the forum so you guys can help me see things or point si may have missed on my own. So if you don't mind, I would appreciate the help!

    Thanks,

    WLG From him... Alrighty then. You asked, "What would my answer be." So here it is. 1. if any statement is made, it should be true . True is not the correct word here. All statements cannot possibly be true seeing how we are imperfect humans who can't see past our own noses.(jer 10:23) Honest would be a more accurate term. Example the greatest man book,chapter 111 is mostly wrong.(see wt 95 Oct.15) But it was honest. The best answer there was at the time if you will. And there are other examples. 2. (Matthew 24:45; 28:18-20) Jesus gave this assignment to his disciples, to go teach, (give spiritual food), to all the nations. Until the conclusion of the system of things. Thus they were/are his slaves, (working for him), until the CST. In order for them to do this they would have to be, "cautious as serpents" or discreet. (Mt 10:16) Thus "Faithful and discreet slave" is descriptive of the ones teaching the people of the plant earth bible truths, and living those truths themselves. 3. where does it say or does Jesus teach us to "Trust the faithful and discreet slave?" The trust issue is implied. Just as His disciples put trust in Jesus because he taught them the truth about Jehovah, who he was, why he does things the way he does. In fact for the first time helped them to develop a friendship with Jehovah. Same is true in our case, you or I would never had been able to even conceive a question such as this if it were no for those people who were sacrificing to teach use what the bible really says about Jehovah. It simply doesn't make sense for Jehovah to send a group of people to the whole world to teach them what is in the bible. Help them clean up there lives, strengthen there families, give them hope for the future, and then when one reaches a certain point of understanding say,"Woo stop, don't trust those people no more." (1Cor 14:33) Well how that answer compare to the one you already have. I just shot from the hip. Have fun Give me more :) Party on...

    ----- Original Message ----- From WLG...
    Here is a small example of the kind of questions I'm asking, if any statement is made, it should be true. Just like the scripture about he who is faithful or trustworthy in the small things is trustworthy in the larger ones. So in this case, what would your answer be, how is the statement in bold true? (I already know the answer to this one)

    18 What does knowing Jehovah’s voice further involve? Besides hearing, it involves obeying. Note again Isaiah 30:21. God’s Word declares: "This is the way." Yes, through a study of the Bible, we hear Jehovah’s directions. Next, he commands: "Walk in it." Jehovah wants us to act on what we hear. Thus, by applying what we learn, we show that we have not simply heard Jehovah’s voice but also listened to it. (Deuteronomy 28:1) Obeying Jehovah’s voice also means obeying Jesus’ voice, for Jehovah himself told us to do so. (Matthew 17:5) What does Jesus, the Fine Shepherd, tell us to do? He teaches us to make disciples and to trust "the faithful and discreet slave." [Donnie Dean] Matt 24:45 is part of the slave parable we talked about last night, the second scripture talks about preaching work...but where does it say or does Jesus teach us to "Trust the faithful and discreet slave?" This is a simple example of the kind of things I'm asking about, the statement clearly says or leads us to think/know "Jesus said to trust the slave", and reinforce our faith in the Organization, it doesn't say who the slave is, but of course we are supposed to just know, which we do. But even more important, there is no statement about trusting the FDS in the bible, not even in the scriptures given as reference, so is the text in bold a true statement, did he teach it or not? (Matthew 24:45; 28:18-20) Obeying his voice means our eternal life.—Acts 3:23.

  • carla
    carla

    Could you ask him why the wt IS the 'faithful discreet slave'? and if it is, can we look at what Jesus looked at, at the time when He supposedly chose the WT? Shouldn't we at least be able to see what convinced Jesus that the wt would be His 'faithful & discreet slave'. Then maybe you could run through some of the 'old light' and ask him if that was being faithful or discreet. Have you read Don Cameron's book, 'Captives of a Concept'? Let us know how it goes, I need ideas for my loved one as well. Thanks, carla

  • the_classicist
    the_classicist

    "When you powers combine, I am Captain Planet!"

    I would simply point out that the Governing Body, aka "Faithful and Discreet Slave," never existed before the 20th century. How could Jesus imply that we should trust the GB when there is no connection between them and Jesus? I mean, a bunch of guys came together and called themselves "the faithful and discreet slave" without any proof that that's what God wanted. Didn't Christ say that "the gates of the netherworld will not prevail against it [the church]." If that's true, how could Christianity apostasize completely as JWs contend. No one ever, ever, ever believed what the JWs do, all the GB does is take the bible out of its proper historical and traditional context.

    Someone can put this in better words, eh.

  • wanderlustguy
    wanderlustguy

    His answer was that Jesus "chose" the WTS as his slave upon his return and inspection in 1919. The way we know he chose the WTS is because they are the only ones who were preaching at that time, everyone else (other religions) was supporting one side ot the other of the war except the Witnesses of that time (bible students).

    I would simply point out that the Governing Body, aka "Faithful and Discreet Slave," never existed before the 20th century.

    The earth was left in darkness without God's presence from the time Jesus died to 1919 when jesus came back to inspect things...

  • GetBusyLiving
    GetBusyLiving

    Roundhouse him with Jerusalem not being destroyed in 607 B.C but instead 587.. then dropkick him by showing how this proves the bible students werent chosen in 1919. Then head lock him with the false prophecies. Knee him in the groin with the deadly organ donor flip-flop and blood transfusion fiasco.

    GBL

  • wanderlustguy
    wanderlustguy


    Getbusy - been a while since we went back and forth...but to the matter at hand, a drop kick will put him straight into the JW Emergency clinic where they shoot you up with more propaganda and badage you back up in the bonds of ignorance. For him is going to have to be completely bible based, or internal WTS publication conflicts, secular information (at this point) is almost useless.

    But he has the largest WT library I've ever seen dating back to the 20's...

  • GetBusyLiving
    GetBusyLiving

    Wanderlust.. perhaps we need the superhuman powers of our quote master extrodinare.. Blondie.

    GBL

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    It doesn't follow that because during the first world war they were preaching and other sides were fighting that they are something special as they claim.

    After all what they were expecting at that time was Armageddon and not a world war, Russell got disgraced and Rutherford tried to reshuffle the dates to salvage things with the naive and the ignorant. The "inspection" had occured in 1874 or there about then moved to 1919.

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    I'd only ever have one question for a Witness. Would you ever shun me? If the answer's "no", I don't have any more questions. If the answer's "yes", I don't have any more questions.

  • littlerockguy
    littlerockguy

    "The earth was left in darkness without God's presence from the time Jesus died to 1919 when jesus came back to inspect things..."

    Is that what they are teaching at this time. I may not remember correctly but isn't the parable about the separating the sheeps and the goats parallel with the parable about the wheat and the weeds growing together until the CST and then the angels are the reapers, yadda yadda yadda? If so wouldn't that show that there was some of God's presence? Does this mean that Jesus came back twice? once in 1914 and then in 1919? and if both parables mean the same thing are they now teaching that we are not living in the time of the harvest now?

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