Whats your input to the explanation of 2 Cor. 12:2-4

by skyman 28 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  skyman

  2 Corinthians 12:2-4 (King James Version)

  
  2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
  

  
  3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
  

  4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

  Paul was here speaking. I do not agree with the JW's version of saying Paul had a vesion of the up coming paradise. Paul said he know a man. I believe just as he wrote it he know this man personally. What do think we can gleam from this an Ancient Knowledge that we today do not know or what else do you think this scriptures is saying?
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  the_classicist

  Sounds like a mystical religious experience, perhaps a form of theosis.
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  Scully

  I've heard there are some potent herbs that can cause those symptoms.
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  jgnat

  Paul was talking about himself most likely, a sort of false modesty. I like this explanation best:

  http://www.cresourcei.org/thirdheaven.html
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  ithinkisee

  Uh-oh ... third heaven ...

  -ithinkisee
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  skyman

  If Pual was the person then I think the Cannas (Marijuna) bloosoms that was the active ingredient in the Holly oil that they used may have been more potent than normal. kicked in and took Paul on good trip
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  lawrence

  I go back to Barnes' commentary of the N.T. I think he had some great thoughts on the Gospels and Paul's writings.

  1.) Paul appeals to another evidence that he was engaged in the apostolic office—an evidence to which none of his accusers could appeals that he had been permitted to behold the glories of the heavenly world, #2Co 12:1-10. In the previous chapter he had mentioned his trials. Here he says, (#2Co 12:1) that as they had compelled him to boast, he would mention the revelation which he had had of the Lord. He details, therefore, the remarkable vision which he had had several years before, (#2Co 12:2-4,) when he was caught up to heaven, and permitted to behold the wonders there. Yet he says, that lest such an extraordinary manifestation should exalt him above measure, he was visited with a sore and peculiar trial—a trial from which he prayed earnestly to be delivered, but that he received answer that the grace of God would be sufficient to support him, #2Co 12:5-9. It was in view of this, he says, (#2Co 12:10,) that he had pleasure in infirmities and sufferings in the cause of the Redeemer.
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  peacefulpete

  During the years surrounding the writing of this passage there were various ideas about how many layers or tiers were in heaven. The Gnostics settled upon 7 while much of Judaism preferred 3. The author of 2 Cor 12 was utilizing this popular mythology to furthur his ends. In intertestamental literature various patriarchs had had an out of body experience and visions of being in heaven and hell like the author here alledges. The Testament of Levi chapt 2 (generally dated to 2nd century BC) has this 3 heaven speculation, the third heaven was where God lived. See below:

  6 I was upon it. And behold the heavens were opened and an angel of God said to me, Levi enter 7 And I entered from the first heaven, and I saw there a great sea hanging. 8 And further I saw a second heaven far brighter and more brilliant, for there was a boundless light also therein. 9 And I said to the angel, Why Is this so? And the angel said to me, Marvel not at this, for thou shalt see another heaven more brilliant and incomparable. 10 And when thou hast ascended thither, Thou shalt stand near the Lord, And shalt be His minister, And shalt declare His mysteries to men, And shall proclaim concerning Him that shall redeem Israel. 11 And by thee and Judah shall the Lord appear among men Saving every race of men.
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  skyman

  
  
  peacefulpete
  

  
  You are getting more to the point that I am wavering too, that is maybe, they had knowledge that we do not have today. The library's of old have been burned with most of the ancient knowledge gone. The third heaven makes me invision planets. I know the ancient egyptians thought that God lived in the Orion's Belt. I don;t think we today got it right today the third heaven meant something other than what we believe is Heaven. What is it.
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  heathen

  Yah it does look like the apostle Paul was talking about himself but not wanting to boast in himself as what the corintians were doing with the superfine apostles . I think 12:20 shows what you would see at a kingdom hall .