They've done more for 1st amendment rights...blah blah...

by Odrade 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    I've heard this argument sooooo many times. I've even used it myself in my "trying not to be overly critical or bitter" days. But is it really true?

    In the CESNUR link posted today by? http://www.cesnur.org/2005/pa_brown.htm this argument comes up once again:

    This Jehovah’s Witnesses has been hailed as champions of religious freedom and human rights

    and:

    USA Today hails Jehovah’s Witnesses for the “rich contribution they have made to the First Amendment freedoms we all enjoy.”[iv] In the United States Jehovah’s Witnesses have contributed more to religious freedom in than any other faith community.

    So what about it? Most of his argument seems to lead to the "conclusion" that because the JW movement has won 1st amendment rights, it demonstrates that they are not a cult, but rather only sectarian. Fine. So be it. It's a ridiculous leap of logic, but okay. So they've won the right in the Supreme Court to avoid accountability to local governments. Works for them.

    My question though: JW's have won 1st amendment rights in court. But does that really mean they are advocates of its principles once out of the public eye?

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

    1."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

    Witnesses are discouraged from forming independent study groups, even using their own literature, for the purpose of deeper study than is provided at the meetings. Personal study is allowed, even "encouraged," but if you decide to form your own weekly group with four or five of your more "searching," intelligent or philosophical friends, you will be censured.

    2. "or abridging the freedom of speech,"

    Witnesses who find questions that are not answered in the Society's literature are strongly urged not to speak of these questions openly. Instead they are told to keep their mouths shut and "wait on Jehovah." Those who persist in trying to get their questions answered may be threatened with sanctions and punitive action for "running ahead of the Organization."

    3. "or of the press;"

    One word: internet. Also, look at the guidelines to letter writing for field service and letter writing campaigns. It is not adviseable to go about assembling your own written discourses of doctrine and practice. Anyone doing so would also be viewed as "running ahead of the organization" and clearly counseled, and likely punitive action would be taken. Remember when the WT library on CD first came out and a bunch of Elders got their panties in a bunch because some were compiling lists of scriptures for use with the Watchtower study articles?

    4. "or the right of the people peaceably to assemble."

    Yes, there have been some gains there... in the legal system. But remember the flap just a few years back about "large gatherings?" Remember how the big picnics and "get-togethers" became fewer and far between, after "advice" against gatherings of this sort was printed in the KM, and announced in Local Needs talks? (Although they do seem to be reversing this attitude.) What's good for the goose is good for the gander? Large conventions with 10,000 are okay, but you can't have a picnic with 50 attendees just for fun without someone trying to crack down on you?

    5. "and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

    Hmmm, you can be disfellowshipped for challenging the decisions of a Judicial Committee. You can be disfellowshipped for exposing a child molester and its congregational mis-handling. You can be disfellowshipped for not backing down from a doctrinal question. The decision is uni-lateral. The "appeals" process is a joke. The "discipline" itself causes greater grievances for which there is no possibility of redress unless you give up all of your constitutionally granted rights.

    Bottom line, the JW Organization uses the courts, and some of their battles have resulted in a legal increase of 1st amendment rights. However, within the Organization itself, there are such gross violations of these rights that it's clear to me the Watchtower Society does not deserve plaudits for their wins. They are simply manipulating the system, much as an unscrupulous un-named oil company worked the loopholes to make certain individuals very rich. There is no trickledown. They have no moral or ethical adherence to the fundamental principles of the 1st amendment freedoms.

    Even though the rights have been won, the end result for the average JW is one of oppression and complete loss of freedom. It's an accolade they do not deserve.

    Odrade

  • lazyslob
    lazyslob

    "There has been one court case against a member of JWD and there are reports of cases pending against members of JWO." "The Jehovah’s Witnesses religion is a sectarian (not cultic) Protestant community " ???????

  • VM44
    VM44

    "They've done more for 1st amendment rights".....But for their [The Watchtower's] own purposes only!

    Everything the Watchtower does is for its own purposes. They care very little for the rights or well being of the individual.

    The purpose of individuals is to serve the Watchtower and promote its causes

    That is why they get upset if people do not wear their convention badges when the go out to restaurants at conventions

    That is why they send some Bethel workers to school to become lawyers(because the Watchtower needs lawyers), but then recommend strongly for young people NOT to go to college, and to pioneer(because the Watchtower wants pioneers). They then give the phoney experiences where people said they had "no regrets" not going to school and pioneering, yeah sure.

    Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, the Watchtower does or says is for ITS OWN ORGANIZATIONAL BENEFIT!

    --VM44

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    Yeah, that court case, wonder if they are talking about Jourles and dirtclod? There's a GREAT case of them wanting to limit someone's first amendment freedoms. "We don't like that you quote us on your website. We are suing you."

    Oh yeah, what about their fight against Barbara Anderson, trying to keep her from freedom of speech regarding their lack of upholding children's right to the freedom from personal invasion (molestation.)

    One more, what about the freedom to talk to your personal physician without their interference in an emergency situation? Not really sure this one is a 1st amendment freedom, but it's certainly a "right to privacy" issue.

  • IronGland
    IronGland

    Communists, Neo Nazis, Klansmen etc all use the 1st amendment to defend their right to speak and assemble. Of course if they were actually in power the 1st amendment would be history

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    True, IG, and part of my point. The JWs (myself included at one point) hold up these court cases won under the 1st amendment argumentation, as proof positive that the WTS is a beneficial and "blessed" organization. It couldn't be a more orthogonal argument. There are many organizations and companies that use the courts and have advanced personal freedoms, while still being reprehensible entities, without true morals or ethics.

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    Their promoting 1st amendment rights is ironic considering the intolerance of the cult regarding its members.

    They tell you all about the freedoms they have won for people and how good and benevolent the WTBTS is towards all humankind.... until you get baptised and then you find out how deceptive the JW's are. By that time you are trapped in the borg because:

    You have alienated all of your friends and non-JW relatives because the WTBTS says they are 'bad association'.

    You have changed careers and more than likely depend, directly or indirectly upon other JW members for your income.

    You have changed your lifestyles and attitudes so much that you can never really go back to being a normal person.

    You find out that if you do not give exclusive devotion to the Governing Body of JW's and/or question any of its false predictions, changing doctrines, you want to read the bible without consulting the WTBTS literature or you want to worship Jesus as Lord the WTBTS under the auspices of its local congregation can and will form a Judicial Committe to investigate your sins against the WTS. This is a closed door trial and no witnesses are allowed. Unles you answer satisfactorily to their interrogation you will be disfellowshipped and shunned by friends and family who are JW's.

    The JW cult reminds me of the lyrics from a popular 1970's Rock song , "Hotel California".

  • Robert K Stock
    Robert K Stock

    When I was a Witness a sister was denied unemployment benefits because she quit her manufacturing job when the plant switched to making parts for weapons.

    I took her case to the local ACLU and I provided the ACLU with a copy of a US Supreme Court decision granting a Witness unemployment benefits in an identical case.

    The sister got her money and I remember her husband saying, "the ACLU has been so nice and helpfull it is a shame WE COULD NEVER DO ANYTHING TO HELP THEM SINCE THEY ARE PART OF SATAN'S SYSTEM OF THINGS. WE CAN'T EVEN DONATE MONEY TO THEM"

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    BTW, did anyone know that the Scientologists were responsible for many of the religious freedoms enjoyed in Down-Under-land? Hmmm....THEY must have the TRUTH!!!

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    Freedoms won by the Scientologists in German Courts. I suppose they have advanced the cause of freedom of religion in Germany. Does this mean that they have Jehovah's blessing?
    Scientologists German Court decisions: Synopsis on Religious Tolerance.org

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