They've done more for 1st amendment rights...blah blah...

by Odrade 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  AuldSoul

  They have actually done more to undermine the original intent of the Bill of Rights protections on free speech than any other group. The Bill of Rights was created in a period where there was serious risk of institutionally imposed beliefs, either from religions or from the Government. The First Amendment was designed to protect the individual against the institutions.

  Today, the intent has been perverted into interpretation that "religion" refers to institutionalized religion instead of the individual's "way of worship" which the framers intended. This protection for religion came amidst attempts by many cities/townships to impose a religion on its individual citizens. It was an imposition of belief upon the individuals, not upon the institutions. Therefore, reading the protections in any way other than as applicable to protection of the individual would be taking it out of context of the times which caused its wording.

  Jehovah's Witnesses caused (almost single-handedly) the Courts to view religious organizations as the entities protected by the First Amendment and caused the undermining of individual free speech rights. Corporations have much debt to the political activism of Jehovah's Witnesses. The attempt to change the interpretation of law through the Judicial Branch of the Federal Government is nothing like the defense of the good news recommended by Paul. It was blatant political activism, and nothing less.

  AuldSoul
• 

  gumby

  Jehovah’s Witnesses have contributed more to religious freedom in than any other faith community

  They haven't contributed shit for freedom.

  The entire religious element outside of their Organisation is in bondage to Babylon, is shortly doomed for destruction, and has never been free. It has been preached AGAINST by Jehovahs Witnesses. If it were up to the Jehovah's Witnesses there would be NO RELIGION outside of their own.

  These idiots that boast of the witnesses hard efforts to promote freedom know little of what the Organisation actually teaches about THEM. Just like the UN did. They need to read some of the titles in the literature that's AGAINST them before they brag on the sick bastards.

  Gumby
• 

  Odrade

  And THAT would be irony.
• 

  Jourles

  In this article the following points have been made:

  1. The anticult movement’s position on Jehovah’s Witnesses and other faith community’s is considered discriminatory by human rights advocates.
  2. Most of the anticult and counter cult organizations have failed to provide credible research.
  3. Most anticult organizations have not mentioned the contribution Jehovah’s Witnesses have made to religious freedom in their research.

  These research issues will be explored further in future research papers.

  Where to begin? Which human rights advocates believe that we are discriminating against the WTS? Name someone 'credible.' The WTS "invites critical examination." If this examination uncovers something that the WTS doesn't want you to see, uh oh, you've just been painted as an opposer.

  Point number 2 is laughable. The only 'credible' research required to show how the WTS truly operates is through its own words and letters. C'mon. Credible research? Who is this guy?

  Number 3 is false too. Many people on this board have noted that the WTS has indeed widened the doorway towards free speech. Free speech for the general public, but not for its own members internally.

  As far as that brief mention of a lawsuit towards a member on this board, I'm not exactly sure who he is referring to. I was never involved in a lawsuit with the WTS. I never let it go that far. I merely received a C&D letter from the WTS' legal department. And Quotes lawsuit came in September.
• 

  Oroborus21

  
  Odrade,

  your original post commits the fundamental error of trying to extend the law to private individuals. The First Amendment and the others are restrictions upon the GOVERNMENT not upon individuals and they contain principles to be held by the GOVERNMENT.

  If these same things were made applicable to private persons or organizations it would violate the very essense of human nature and freedom.

  For example, while the Government may not restrain private persons from speaking freely in certain forums, each of us in certain circumstances could insist upon it. I would not permit you to stand in my living room and verbally abuse my child for example without asking you to leave or forcibly removing you.

  My point is that you criticize the WT Organization for not acting like the Government when it is not the government and not subject to the restrictions of the 1st Amendment.

  VM: very few Plaintiffs or Defendants that bring cases before the U.S. Supreme Court are not selfishly and firstly interested in their own claims and how the outcome of the case will affect them. In fact, the first prerequisite is that such a party must have STANDING, meaning the party must be impacted themselves by the outcome of the case. Thus it is not a valid criticism to say that because the WT in bringing forth its numerous legal cases was only seeking its own benefit it somehow takes away from its effect. This is almost always the case with any party championing such an action.

  Without a doubt we have all benefited because of what others have done and that is the way our system works! The WT is not wrong nor without merit in touting its own legal victories and pointing out how these have benefited society at large. Only the most vehement WT haters would deny that they have done much good in the area of legal rights.

  I had the privilege of being taught by some of the best in Constitutional rights such as Erwin Chemerinsky and Charles Whitebread and these professors and every such law professor and lawyer that I know would acknowlege that JWs' cases have done much to secure our civil freedoms.

  Sincerely,

  Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.
• 

  metatron

  Ridiculous and repellent.

  The Nazis gave us valuable information on how the human body reacts to extreme cold and pressure. They developed this body of knowledge

  by killing and torturing prisoners in concentration camps. Should we praise what they did?

  Why should anyone praise an organization like the Watchtower, when it manifests such contempt for human rights?

  metatron
• 

  Odrade

  Well, then sign me up as one of "the most vehement WT haters," because no matter how the constitutional system works, there ARE organizations out there that hold themselves to the same high standards as they would wish the government to behave, and the Watchtower Organization IS NOT ONE OF THESE.