Can someone help me to understand?

by hiccup 32 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Gerard
    Gerard
    I have been offered a really great opportunity in Europe but I am willing to forego that if it means that I can help my father pull out of whatever is going on emotionally.




    Please, go to Europe!

    Your father will soon start doing black-mailing and cohersing you to join the JW cult; He will be shown how. And when you refuse, we will be FORCED to treat you as an unbeliever and if you critizise him, hel'll perceive you as an enemy of the Watchtower and he may even shun you.



    I'd give him Ray Franz book (Crisis of Conscience) to read aAs soon as possible and then you must get into that jet to Europe. You are in time.

  • Swan
    Swan

    I was a JW for 35 years, so I have many years of experience to draw upon. Often at their weekly meetings and invariably at their large assembly gatherings they stress people giving up their secular jobs, selling their possessions, and living a simpler life by becoming a full time minister going door-to-door for Jehovah. This is constantly stressed, but especially prior to 1975, which the Watchtower Society predicted would bring about the end of the world as we know it.

    They would have slogans such as "Buying Out The Opportune Time", "Making Room For It", "Serving Where the Need is Greater", "Storing Up Treasures in Heaven," being "Joyful Workers", "Working Whole-Souled To Jehovah", and "Send More Workers Into the Harvest." This means basically that you quit your job to preach about Jehovah as often as you can, even up to 60, 75, 100, or even 150 hours per month. The time you get to do this is what you buy by giving up your 40 hour a week job. By doing this, you gain Jehovah's favor, and your salvation in the coming destruction of the world at Armageddon.

    Their are tiers that a person can aspire to. There are Missionaries who are assigned to foreign countries in order to peddle the JW religion in growing third world countries. Their are Bethelites, who are assigned to the JW World HQ where they work 40 hours a week in a printing plant preparing religious publications for their room and board and a small monthly stipend for toiletries. There are pioneers and they come in several varieties, "special, regular, and auxiliary" who go to door to door in their own locale, but occasionally sell their home to move to a rural area where "the need is greater." This means that they don't have as many JWs to cover the territory. Then their are publishers who preach less than pioneers, but can be just as committed financially and emotionally to the ministry work.

    I myself was a computer programmer who became a janitor for a while, but then realized that what I was doing was ludicrous, and so went back to working full time as a computer programmer again. I got a lot of flack for that from my peers, because not only do you get that pressure from the pulpit, but also from fellow members and all of the JW literature. My uncle sold insurance, but kept selling the less profitable lines because they allowed him more time to devote to the ministry and be a congregation elder. The better paying lines, such as group health, paid much better, but involved a lot of time away from home, so he never took that course in his career. They never had a fancy home. Actually they lived in a trailer on a very small lot.

    Others I know sacrificed good paying jobs to pioneer. It was praised by all in the congregation, even though these people had much less money to get by on. It is actually a status symbol in most congregations.

    I hope that answers your questions. This is all based on my experience, but feel free to ask as many more exJWs and JWs about their experiences as you need to.

    Tammy

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    It seems your dad had an emotional and spiritual crisis. All his hard work has not paid him back as he expected. The Jehovah's Witnesses provide ready answer to all of life's problems, so they had a man ripe for the picking when he came along. It would be natural for him to blame his own "material" acheivement for the disaster that has befallen his family.

    What I am having a hard time understanding is if being a Jehovah's Witness is what has brought him to this idea?

    That is very possible. The JW's do not speak well of "materialistic" people, or educated people.

    does anyone know what I can do?

    I fear, after two years of study, he is too far gone down the path. If you get angry or coercive, he will think you are an agent of "Satan."

    The book suggestions above are excellent. Get them, read them, and pass them to your father. Have a heart-to-heart with your father to figure out what he is thinking. If he accuses you of speaking for Satan, don't take it personally. It is his teaching talking, not the father you remember being raised by.

    Unfortunately, you cannot force people in to common sense. I don't think you should postpone your life. Go to Europe. Check in on your father on occassion. Ask him insightful questions, and, if he ever starts expressing doubts about his choice to follow the Witnesses, reinforce him. Conversion OUT of a cult takes longer than getting them IN. We are talking YEARS here, not weeks.

  • potleg
    potleg

    We tend to become like those we associate with. Most JW's are not really financially succesfull.those that are are often viewed as spiritually weak or somehow having too much to do with "the World"..which is passing away, according to them. I'm not saying that poverty is encouraged outright but neither is anything outside the witnesses, certainly not wealth or association with succesfull non witnesses. The idea seems to just get by and ride out the "remaining few months in this old system". I think witnesses today are more into money though. When the organization speaks people don't listen as well as they once did. Maybe a lack of money or a humble job is seen by some as a thorny crown...a modern day version of the more you suffer in this life for the Lord the greater your reward in the next, often times individuals who have given up so much for the truth are set as shining examples. Witnesses often like to tell how hard and bad things are...after all the end is coming so soooon and they don't want to be tooo comfortable in this system of things...or do they? Maybe some in secret.

  • ithinkisee
    ithinkisee
    Why would an "active witness" not say it's OK to have a real career?



    Joker obviously hasn't been to this summer's District Convention. Almost every talk almost explicitly states "secular education is bad and is for arrogant pricks - choose pioneering as it is the only rewarding career".

    So yeah Joker ... if you mean "real career" in the sense of being a pioneer - then I would say you are right on the money.

    -ithinkisee

  • jula71
    jula71

    ithinkisee beat me too it. I've heard from all that have been to it, the DC all but says secular education and a "consuming" career is wrong. You have to remember, dub's try to be very careful with what they say so things don't can back and bite them in the ass. They would never say college and a career is wrong, BUT they are very successful in making you feel guilty as hell if you do. They constantly teach, although such things are not wrong in onto themselves, if you do, you simply can not be putting "kingdom interests" first. That's the game they play with all "conscience matters", if you arrive at a conclusion they do not like, you will hear about it. And 10, for the record, Sirona hit the nail on the head.

  • Crumpet
    Crumpet
    What I am having a hard time understanding is if being a Jehovah's Witness is what has brought him to this idea?

    Undoubtedly it is. JWs tend to attract people who are going through a vulnerable period in their life or who are lonely or who have experienced bereavement. They hold out the promise that very soon, in our lifetime, that everybody who is not a JW will be destroyed in the battle of Armageddon and they will be the meek who inherit the earth literally. They also believe that all those who have died will be ressurected just as they were, minus illness, back to the earth - so you can see why this might be very appealing to someone who has lost a loved one. And they will all live forever on a paradise earth.

    Materialism - wanting worldly things beyond what you require to live - ie a roof and 3 meals a day is very much frowned upon as all these worldly goods wont be used in the Paradise.

    From personal experience this is a desperate worry for me also. I was raised as a witness and am now shunned by my parents and entire family as I left the cult when I was 16. My concern is my father has lived this way all his adult life as has my mother - they haven;t got a home - they just rent, as they believe when everyone is destroyed they will be able to choose whatever house they like for free. They haven't got pensions or savings as money wonlt be needed in the paradise earth. They will be reaching retirement age in the next 7 years, but they will have to carry on at their cleaning jobs until they die.

    This is your father's future. I wish I could advise you on how to get him out- but it sounds like it is already too late. What you can do is insist that he has savings or something if Armageddon doesnt come so that you are not expected to support them in their old age. He will try to convert you bit by bit because you are destined to be destoryed by God at Armageddon as far as he is concerned.

    Good to have you on the board - and please read these answers carefully. Judge for yourself the sincerity and genuiness of the responses. if you want further proof that materialism is severly condemned then go to quotes.ca which is a site that has all JW literature. Search under worldly/career/materialism/education and you will find for yourself what JW policy is on these subjects.

    Hope to hear from you again and I would probably go for the job in Europe as I think your father is too deep in to be helped out at this moment in time.

    crumpet x

  • WingCommander
    WingCommander

    I know I probably shouldn't ask it on here? But Crumpet X, is that really you? If so, you are a real hottie! Just thought I'd let you know if no one has told you so lately.

    Wing Commander

  • Crumpet
    Crumpet

    Thanks wing commander - I feel - well flattered that someone who rarely posts took the trouble to do so to compliment me. Today I'm not so much hottie as "sweatie". Its is 32 degrees in my office, there is a puddle under my desk - ah well, alls that will be left is an apple floating on top by the end of today!

  • jula71
    jula71
    Undoubtedly it is. JWs tend to attract people who are going through a vulnerable period in their life or who are lonely or who have experienced bereavement.

    Spot on Crumpet. But not just vulnerable, but I read a post a few days ago, that really got me thinking as well. A common thread in dub's is addictive behavior. Combine those two patterns, you have a perfect candidate to be a dub.

    And I have to agree with WingCommander, but that's a different thread all together.

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