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Does Genesis 1:26 support Devine Trinity???
by zagor 92 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Lieu
An easy correlation between God and Christ as His Word is the account of Moses and Aaron.
Not that God is a poor speaker but the relationship is the same.
Moses imparted the message and Aaron was his Word, so to speak.
Exodus 4: 14 And thou shalt speak unto him, and put the words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do. 16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people; and it shall come to pass, [b]that he shall be to thee a mouth, and thou shalt be to him as God. [/b]17 And thou shalt take in thy hand this rod, wherewith thou shalt do the signs. -
LittleToe
Inquirer:
Just for you (quoted from the NWT):1Th 5:23 May the very God of peace sanctify YOU completely. And sound in every respect may the spirit and soul and body of YOU [brothers] be preserved in a blameless manner at the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and [their] marrow, and [is] able to discern thoughts and intentions of [the] heart.
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ozziepost
Wot you doin' quoting that christendom stuff, LT??
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Narkissos
zagor,
Perhaps your intuitive sociology of ancient culture and writing would require some questioning:
Bible as such was written in language that was to be understood by simple-minded people of ancient Middle East.
Who wrote, who read? Remember the literacy level was very low and most of the OT text were written and read by an educated elite -- some of the textual production being designed to be read aloud in a liturgical setting, for the benefit of a wider audience.
Genesis 1 bears the mark of a central priestly milieu, which was well aware of earlier cosmogonies, either from the Levantine or Mesopotamian areas. They produced a pretty simple though well-structured text (within the liturgical frame of sabbath, which is the point of the whole "creation week" as 2:1-3 show). Representing "God" as the head of a "divine assembly" was part of a widely accepted representation.
Of course this view came to be questioned (by the "pure monotheism" of 2nd Isaiah), which means that the texts had to be read from a new perspective.
This is the drift process inherent to writing: the reader will never "get" it exactly as the writer "meant" it, and later generations will only get farther from the "original" understanding. The Bible as a collection of writings responding to each other over the centuries is perhaps the best example of that.
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M.J.
Only the conception of g/God completely changes from one stage to the next... (polytheism-henotheism / strict monotheism / tri-unity).
the WTS is permanently stuck in the polytheism-henotheism paradigm...until the 1950s they used to worship both the Father and the son as two separate gods: polytheism
they now only worship the Father, while acknowledging the existance of other gods (jesus, man): henotheism
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A Paduan
Have you thought on the pot made by the potter.
- Formed substance from the earth - your physical body
- What it contains, the use and purpose - spirit
- And what it is and the uniqueness - your soul
You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life
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jimakazi
The really sad thing is that this assumes the bible has to make sense and is "inspired". I think you find inconsistancies because it is NOT inspired, this is in many ways your proof. I think the whole concept of a trinity is pretty damn weak, just as is hell, Even my 7 year old son [attending a catholic school] worked that out for himself.
Even if it was inspried, it was likely written in a way that the people of a sheep herder / desert nomadic culture might understand. Language helps shape our thoughts, and think - I wonder how rich their language was back then??? So even is god explained the quantum physics involved, and the complete process and time scale in detail, how would our humble writer express it? Hey big guy can i just say "in the beginning..."
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zagor
LittleToe, I've really had in mind only Hebrew part of the bible. But even if I was to consider the scripture you’ve quoted from Greek part of the bible that would pose another problem. According to that understanding human being can only exist if all three of those components (body, soul and spirit) are present.If any of those depart life as such (human life) ceases to exist, am I wrong? If divine being a.k.a god has the same nature that would imply that god would cease to exist the moment Jesus’ life form departed heaven and came to earth to become human.
Similarly, it would certainly cease to exist when he died on the cross. Also him being a human, and part of the god makes another problem since he would also have in possession three human components (body, soul, and spirit). So when he died which part of him did cease to exist??? To me personally all of this sound a bit likes Egyptian mysticism which I did study and know a lot about so we can discuss it if you wish. That certainly, doesn’t sound like anything Jews believed in.
After all bible alleges that they had to flee Egypt because of “impure” religion. If their religious beliefs were similar or indeed related then there would be no need for it would there? Similarly, one could liken that to Hindu or Buddhist belief of reincarnation, which is something utterly strange to Judeo-Christian way of understanding the life and divinity.
Or could it be that bible is not really contradicting itself at all? Could it be that problem is with our linguistic understanding of the text? I have a privilege of being of mixed origin, and I know that in some of those cultures people use plural when addressing an individual as a sign of respect. Who is to say that ancient Jews didn’t do the same?
On another note, I do have to side with WT at least on this point, i.e. there are enough of other scriptures that specifically say that life, both physical body and thinking abilities, cease to exist at the time of death. Even Jesus compared Lazarus’s state of death as sleep not as “departed soul”
So rational person would then ask which scriptures are correct. Rightfully so a rational person would doubt if bible is really inspired word of god if there are major inconsistencies.
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hmike
If any of those depart life as such (human life) ceases to exist, am I wrong? If divine being a.k.a god has the same nature that would imply that god would cease to exist the moment Jesus’ life form departed heaven and came to earth to become human.
Similarly, it would certainly cease to exist when he died on the cross.
Not necessarily, zagor. John writes of the Word as being the same as God, and that Jesus was the Word made flesh. So, it is the Word in Jesus that is divine. The Word need not be confined to the physical body of Jesus, nor does the Word being in Jesus mean that the Father is without the Word. It can be like saying that air--the atmosphere--can be in a person's lungs, but it's elsewhere too. And when Jesus died a physical death, that wouldn't affect the Word. The Word would be spiritual in nature and not affected by this physical event.