by zagor 92 Replies latest watchtower bible
“let us create a man in our image according to our likeness”
Isaiah 44:24 similarly has Yahweh declaring: "I am Yahweh, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, when I spread out the earth, who was with me?"
There is the essence of the doctrine right there.
“let us create a man in our image according to our likeness”Isaiah 44:24 similarly has Yahweh declaring: "I am Yahweh, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, when I spread out the earth, who was with me?"There is the essence of the doctrine right there.
Indeed, if Leolaia's take on the relationship of (an early version of) Genesis 1 and 2nd Isaiah is correct, this is a good case of formal (1) thesis, (2) antithesis and (3) synthesis. Only the conception of g/God completely changes from one stage to the next... (polytheism-henotheism / strict monotheism / tri-unity).
Faith
Thank you I will read that post right after I write these scriptures out. Someone said that IF Jesus had sinned there would not have been a triune nature to God. So I thought I would add these for prosperity sake;
JESUS had NO sin;
1 Peter 2:22 ...whom commited no sin, nor was any deceit found in his mouth..... (angels can sin, Jesus was never an angel)
Isaiah 53:9... nor was any deceit found in his mouth.
2 Corinthians 5:21 He made him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf (all angels can sin, all angels know sin, all angels could have sinned, Jesus was not Michael the archangel, Michael could have chosen to sin)
Jesus was perfect, He often said that he did what he saw his Father do. They were One. It took me awhile to understand until I began to think like a child. Jesus said we must be as children to enter heaven. So to a child it is basic. You cross a aligator and a rabbit, you get an aligabit. The Son of a dog, would be a dog. Jesus is the Son of man, the Son of God. The only. Firstborn of all creation in Greek means "prototokos" = preeminent. God set His Son over all things that ever were. Mary+God= ________ a child knows
inquirer
Faith. Jesus could have been tempted by the devil in Matthew 4:1. But no. He wanted to be a Witness to Jehovah. He wanted to make his name known (John 17:26.) If you read the whole verse it make more sense: And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”
Why did he love him? Because he was God's servant and did his will. When he died on the stake, why would he say "God, why have you forsaken me!" He was obviously speaking to someone else! Who resurrected him? God of course!
when you quote Isaiah 53:9 "... nor was any deceit found in his mouth." This was still yet to be fullfilled by prophesy.
When you quoted 2 Corinthians 5:21 "He made him who knew no sin" This was the path he chose. He decided to remain loyal to God.
So what if Jesus was perfect! Adam was too, but then decided that he didn't need him anymore.
They were "one in purpose." It's like someone making a movie. You have a director, producer, stuntman, actors, props... they are all working together for one purpose: to make a movie!
By the fact that Jesus is called "son of God" means that he was a created being.
...Anyway, Jesus could have been sinful, if he wanted to. What is to stop him? Jehovah God would have been bitterly been disapointed, but he would have got someone else to do the work. Why make a distinction between angels and Jesus? They are all spiritual beings. They are all capable of doing bad. The angels that sinned joined Satan in his rebellion, remember?
I don't think Jesus would sin now, after all his been through with God. But there cold have been the slight chance where he could have sinned.
Narkissos
France
“let us create a man in our image according to our likeness”
Isaiah 44:24 similarly has Yahweh declaring: "I am Yahweh, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, when I spread out the earth, who was with me?"
There is the essence of the doctrine right there.
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inquirer: Look, you are not even reading my posts! :(
Faith Re:
Humans are made in the triune image of God , Body, Mind, Spirit.
Animals have the body and the mind but not the Spirit.
1 Corinthians 15: " it is sown a perishable body it is raised an imperishable body, it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory, it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power, it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
Paul was speaking too all mankind, not only 144,000 JWs. As a disassociated JW, I now understand and embrace the teachings of Jesus and all the Apostles as for me.
Peace Out
Faith
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inquirer
Sounds like a man-made doctrine to me!
Where is the Scriptural support! The Scripture you showed doesn't talk about what you reckon it talks about.
I could also say the so-called triune god made man in God's image with the mind, body and limbs! (Take your pick!)
I have never heard of this doctrine before. But I am surprised you people don't put "mind, body and soul." Because a lot of you kinds of people are obsessed with crosses and souls... You hear people in songs always say "in my soul..."
from the Jews who wrote & call the hebrew scriptures their own in their own language:
INQUIRER:
I have never heard of this doctrine before. But I am surprised you people don't put "mind, body and soul." Because a lot of you kinds of people are obsessed with crosses and souls... You hear people in songs always say "in my soul..."
Understanding the source of our soul and its eternal essence.
One of the foundations of our faith is the belief in the immortality of the soul, and in life after death.
If one believes in God's justice, one must also believe in the immortality of the soul. How can we otherwise reconcile the fact that many righteous individuals suffer in this life?
Just as the unborn child has many endowments which are of no use to it in the womb, but demonstrate that it will be born into a world where they will be used, so does a human being have many endowments which are of little value in this life, which indicate that man will be reborn into a higher dimension after death.On the physical plane, man is indistinguishable from animals.
Details of immortality are not mentioned in the Torah since revelation only deals with the present world. The prophet therefore says when speaking of the World to Come, "Never has the ear heard it -- no eye has seen it -- other than God: That which He will do for those who hope in Him" (Isaiah 64:3). That is, not even the great prophets were allowed to envision the reward of the righteous in the Ultimate future.
Man shares physio-chemical life processes with animals, and on the physical plane is indistinguishable from them. We therefore speak of man having an "animal soul" (Nefesh HaBehamit) which is contained in the blood, i.e. in the physio-chemical life processes. Regarding this soul, the Torah says, "The life-force of the flesh is in the blood" (Leviticus 17:11).
Since this animal soul is what draws man away from the spiritual, it is commonly called the "Evil Urge" (Yetzer Hara) in the Talmud.
INNERMOST ESSENCE
In addition to his material self, however, man possesses a soul which is unique among all of God's creations. In describing the creation of Adam, the Torah says, "God formed man out of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils a soul-breath of life (Nishmat Chaim). Man [thus] became a living creature (Nefesh Chaya)" (Genesis 2:7).
The Torah is teaching us that the human soul came directly from God's innermost Essence in the same way that a breath issues forth from a person's lungs and chest cavity. The rest of creation, on the other hand, was created with speech, which is a lower level, for just as sound waves are generated by a person but do not contain any air from the lungs, so the rest of creation emanates from God's Power but not from His Essence.
THREE PARTS
The soul consists of three parts which are called by the Hebrew names, nefesh, ruach and neshama. The word neshama is a cognate of nesheema, which means literally "breath." Ruach means "wind." Nefesh comes from the root nafash, meaning "rest," as in the verse, "On the seventh day, [God] ceased work and rested (nafash)." (Exodus 31:17).
God's exhaling a soul can be compared to a glassblower forming a vessel. The breath (neshama) first leaves his lips, travels as a wind (ruach) and finally comes to rest (nefesh) in the vessel. Of these three levels of the soul, neshama is therefore the highest and closes to God, while nefesh is that aspect of the soul residing in the body. Ruach stands between the two, binding man to his spiritual Source. It is for this reason that Divine Inspiration is called Ruach HaKodesh in Hebrew.
THE NESHAMA IS AFFECTED ONLY BY THOUGHT, THE RAUCH BY SPEECH, AND THE NEFESH BY ACTION.
WILL POWER:
Doesn't that last line sound a bit like most Christian descriptions of the trinity?
NESHAMA: FATHER - thought - mind;
RAUCH: SON - body - the word;
NEFESH: HOLY SPIRIT - breath/spirit - active force;
ONE GOD - All are one
We were created in this likeness. Mind / Body / Spirit. Each characteristic has its own dimension. That is why no one has ever seen God & lived.
yucca
When you read gen chapter 1 its all about Gods creation of the world. When you read John chapter 1 (not the NWT) it says Jesus is the word and the word was God . Verse 3 says all things were made by him;and without him was not any thing made that was made. If you read in Acts chapter 5 there is the account of Ananias and his wife Sapphira in verse 3 Peter said Ananias why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, The third member of the trinity. Matt 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you.all matter of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men:but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men. Does that sound like an active Force?
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inquirer
Ok, only thing different about John 1:1 NWT, is the "a." Verse 3 is talking about Jesus as the Master Worker. Proverbs 8:29 "when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, "
Ok, in Acts 5:3, Satan was messing around with Jehovah's power (holy spirit.) It's like a clairvoyant telling you the future. It's not a special gift, it's the demons that are doing it. It says in Corinthians mircales done away with...
I know you didn't quote it, but people say the spirit is a personality because in John it says it's a helper. Does that mean wisdom is a female, like other translation try to put it as. Does it cry out in the streets, literally? (Proverbs 1:20) No, of course not!
Yeah, there is no forgiveness, if you don't respect his power (his spirit.) If he gives you life and you go "I don't care. Just kill me you whatever." You won't be resurrected, or forgiven. Just like if you don't respect his servants (2 Kings 2:23) and you say "go up you baldhead." That is deep dispect for a prophet! Speaking against spiritual things are strictly forbidden.
How do you explain this: Isaiah 48: 16 “Come near to me, YOU people. Hear this. From the start I have spoken in no place of concealment at all. From the time of its occurring I have been there.”
And now the Sovereign Lord Jehovah himself has sent me, even his spirit. "
He wanted his servant to complete a task for him and sent out his spirit (power.)
inquirer: Look, you are not even reading my posts! :(
Inquirer,
Actually, Narkissos was quoting me in his reply. What you quoted was not his position, but rather mine.
I have read your posts, nos. 233-240 inclusive, and understand your suggestions.
ONE GOD - All are one
This is relevant to the original topic: has anyone ever posted a study on echad (or ehad or ekhad, I've seen it all ways) from Deut. 6:4, "Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one (echad)." Can somebody supply the link, or take a fresh look?
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear!
I’ve read all your post but cannot help but wonder if trinity is right explanation. I’ve started this thread more as a fun exercise to see how people are thinking. But then it struck me how almost everybody is missing one fundamentally critical point. Bible as such was written in language that was to be understood by simple-minded people of ancient Middle East. I wonder if any of them when reading scriptures was going after mathematical-like, highly-complex inter-referencing in order to conclude that God has multiple personalities or beings as a part of his makeup.
I think this though would have been quite strange to those simple peasants, fishermen or shepherds. Indeed, even today Jews are rejecting such thought as strange (not to use more derogative term). Or take it another way, forget for the moment you are reading the Bible. Say you are reading a book about Leonardo da Vinci who was making sculpture in his image, what would you think?
Would you still try to make complex inter-referencing as in the case of the Bible or would you simple take it as an informative remark? Or if you’ve read elsewhere (not in the bible) that father and the son went together to do some creative work, would you apply same complex reasoning as in the case of bible in order to prove that two of them are, in a way, the one? I’ve only started studying Hebrew about 7 months ago, but can someone with more linguistic expertise in Hebrew tell me if what you read below is anything other than a passing remark.
(correction: trying to upload some hebrew text)
