5/23/05 KM Article "Jehovah's Day is Near"

by TheListener 33 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Flash

  Generic Man,

  So basically you think the witnesses are God's "chosen people" because they seem to be similar to the Israelites.

  Not really, I'm just trying to show that God's ancient people performed badly right from the begining and were in the wrong more often than they were in the right...and yet still were God's people. So then, we shouldn't be surprised that God's modern people aren't all they should be either. Thats what I'm saying.

  ...you have absolutely no proof that the witnesses are God’s people, but there is tons of evidence that shows that they are not.

  Bad conduct and errors in understanding do not prove they aren't God's people. Again, look at Israel during the time of Jesus and look at Jesus's attitude and actions toward the religious establishment. The religious leaders had moved so far from where they should have been as 'God's People' that Jesus regularly rubuked them severly... Yet they where still God's people right up untill Jesus died faithfully. Also, the Jews also didn't understand prophecy that accurately either.

  What is so frustrating about your posts is that you still cling to the teachings of the self-anointed elite whom you identify as the evil slave.

  The ones that I believe are correct, yes. I discard what I believe to be wrong.

  You give a list of teachings that are supposedly unique to the witnesses: But none of these are unique to the witnesses, but have been espoused by all sorts of sects and denominations at some time or another.

  Yes, but are they the core teachings on which those religions were built around? ...And where are they now?

  But why should you believe any of these doctrines that you list here? Weren’t these the interpretations and teachings of the tyrants you supposedly freed yourself from?

  These 'Core Teachings' I believe are scripturely correct.

  I find it especially irritating how you try to defend Russell...

  Just giving the man the benifit of the doubt. I don't think he woke up one morning and decided to make himself the leader of a new religion. Besides I never said he was a saint. Power can influence anyone of us if we're not carefull.

  You may think you have freed yourself from these guys, but you still think like a witness.

  I am freeing myself up from as much wrong human reasoning as I can percieve, little by little, day by day. I will hold on only to those things I believe are correct. And as you already know, I worship Jehovah (based on Witness teachings) as an INDIVDUAL. Now, we don't agree, and thats OK. You get the last word, I will be happy to read your next post and then I think we should move on.
• 

  Generic Man

  Flash,

  "Bad conduct and errors in understanding do not prove they aren't God's people. Again, look at Israel during the time of Jesus and look at Jesus's attitude and actions toward the religious establishment. The religious leaders had moved so far from where they should have been as 'God's People' that Jesus regularly rubuked them severly... Yet they where still God's people right up untill Jesus died faithfully. Also, the Jews also didn't understand prophecy that accurately either."

  This same defense can be made for Catholicism, Protestantism, Fundamentalism, or any other Christian denomination/sect or any other monotheistic religion. As for bad conduct and errors, I think you're understating what is happening within this organization.

  The core teachings you have listed are the core beliefs of some sects:

  Seventh-day Adventist Church (where Russell got most of his teachings):
  -Deny the trinity. (Before Ellen G. White's death)
  -Jesus is Michael the Archangel.
  -Deny immortality of the soul.
  -Believe in a bodily resurrection.
  -Believe in an imminent, pre-millennial, second advent.
  -Attribute Orthodox Christian beliefs to a Geat Apostacy.
  -Deny salvation to those outside the Church.

  Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints:
  -Deny the trinity.
  -Deny immortality of the soul.
  -Believe in a bodily resurrection.
  -Attribute Orthodox Christian beliefs to a Geat Apostacy.
  -Deny salvation to those outside the Church.

  Christadelphians:
  -Deny the trinity.
  -The Holy Spirit is an impersonal force
  -Deny immortality of the soul.
  -Believe in a bodily resurrection.
  -Attribute Orthodox Christian beliefs to a Geat Apostacy.
  -Are conscientious objectors (but not pacifists), and refrain from involvement in politics.

  In fact, Jehovah's Witnesses originated with Seventh-day Adventist teachings. The Adventists are also guilty of many false predictions and Russell has done the same. In fact, Russell had made more false predictions than the Adventists ever did. So I am not going to take it easy on Russell. He was arrogant, irrresponsible, and deceptive. This is evident from his writings which filled with nonsense. Throughout The Finished Mystery, for example, he dismisses all the clergy who criticised him as "dumb dogs." It seems quite clear to me that it was the dumb dogs who were correct a along. Russell alson died rich and famous. He traveled the globe to teach about his home made religion.

  But you have made it clear that you will believe the Jehovah's Witnesses regardless of what anybody says. Suit yourself.
• 

  Jeffro

  Bad conduct and errors in understanding do not prove they aren't God's people.

  So what is the basis then? Given that their own doctrinal basis for being the 'faithful and discreet slave' is inseparably linked with chronology that can be readily disproved, they have no real basis at all for their claim.
  
  The only difference in credibility between them saying they are God's chosen people or me starting some religion and saying the same thing is that they have a corporate letterhead with a nice little logo.
• 

  Flash

  Jeffro,

  Your missing my point. Unless you believe the Jews were never God's people then their conduct wouldn't matter. But since IMO, they were God's people, it matters a lot especialy when we're expecting people who claim to be God's people to be flawless from start to finish in every way. My point is the Jews weren't, and modern day Christians aren't going to be either. Bible history shows that neither Jehovah nor His Son managed the ancient Jews or early Christians that 'closely,' otherwise, there would never had occured any apostacy in either faith because they would have been given no room to move in that direction.

  Have a nice day.