"Theocratic Warfare" - An Apostate Strategy?

by slimboyfat 61 Replies latest jw friends

metatron

Witnesses do, in fact, lie as a matter of habit. The deep secrecy of the organization doesn't
allow for anything else!
Go to any public talk at any Kingdom Hall and just try to count the sheer number of lies, misquotations,
and mis-statements of fact. Start with the 'worse and worse' lie - now move along to the 'we show our
love by preaching ' lie ( who loves "worldly people? who joke about occupying their homes after Armageddon?)
Consider the massive and cruel deception of encouraging Witness parents to raise their kids as Witnesses
all while the Society knows from its own internal statistics that the overwhelming majority will
'reject the truth'!
Far from being deeply honest, Witnesses are deeply deceived - and deceptive.
metatron
Quotes
SBF, your minimizing by referrnig to only 60s and 70s is incorrect -- or perhaps you were practicing spiritual warfare? ;)

If you check out the "LIE" page on my website (Lie Definition) you will note that the most recent entry is the Insight book. When was that publish, hhhmmm????

When I was a JW, I knew about SW.

Yes, most (all?) of the examples given involve either Nazis or hiding lit. in countries under ban.

But here is the problem, IMO. It would be more correct to simply say "yes, it was a lie, but they had too... and lies to save yourself from Nazis are OK, god won't punish you for that kind of lie"

But they don't say that. Instead, they change the very definition of a lie, and then say, in effect, "no lie ever occured".

The problem is this new definition has no restrictions on it, other than the subjective feeling of the one telling the non-truth. IOW, If you don't think I am "entitled" to truthful info, then you can lie to me... and it isn't a lie, so god won't hate you. I don't have to be a Nazi, I don't have to be a killer, I don't have to looking for your literature so I can take it away. All that is required is for you to SUBJECTIVELY FEEL that I don't have a right to the truth, in YOUR opinion.

Are you honestly saying you're not aware of a Watchtower instructional manual that coaches people on how to testify in court at child custody hearings? It instructs the children that when asked about their future, the should "not think they are a part at an assembly and focus on pioneering or the paradise" but rather say that they want to learn a skill and provide for their family. IOW, it encourages a "sin of ommission". And if you don't see a problem with this type of thing, fine. I'm certain that most people (both worldings and eJWs alike) do see the problem.

(Put the shoe on the other foot: imagine if a similar doc from the Catholics instructed a child, when testifying, when asked about their hopes for eternity, to "not think they are in sunday school and mention the threat of eternal hellfire damnation; rather they should focus on their desire to be with their family.)

Here are some things I "lied" about while a JW (of course, at the time, I felt it wasn't a lie because those hearing me didn't have a right to the truth -- in some case, even elders).

I was happy as a JW (in fact, I was not!)

I really enjoyed knocking on strangers door to give them a message of GOOD NEWS they would probably be killed by god real soon now (I did this work, but I NEVER enjoyed it; it was nerve wracking, embarrassing, and mentally and physically tiring)

I was a bible student. (in fact, I was a watchtower student. I never read the bible, other than looking up some scriptures here and there. But I still told people I met in Field Service I was a bible student. I have learned MUCH more about the bible and have studied it MUCH more since I left JWs)

I wanted to get baptised and felt a calling and desire to be part of Jahs organization (in fact, I simply felt pressured to do what others perceived as the right thing for me. Like an arranged marriage, I simply went along hoping that if enough time passed, I would learn to love)

~Quotes, of the "if I lie now, I'm man enough to CALL it a lie" class

P.S. When I show the WT definition of "lie" to non-JW friends, they immediately recognize the potential for abuse and are shocked.

DannyHaszard

I take note that the JW apologist of this thread has concealed his identity,why is that?

Rat em out....

Governing Body: Theocratic Warfare Protocol:

Theocratic Warfare:
Why JWs lie in court

"While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible,

this does not mean that a person is under obligation

to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it." -

( quote-Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2-- Watchtower training manual [from quotes site]

Watchtower's Criminal Profile at a Glance.

Hindering prosecution.

Willful obstruction of justice and the subornation of perjury.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/77317/1.ashx

Cover up,and U 'R gonna get 'covered up'!

Undaunted Danny's take on the 'two witness take-down': What I find most offensive of all JW sleaze is the notorious,"Two Witness Take-down". Simply put,if a JW perpetrator stabs me in the back and the entire congregation sees it happen....

....Unless "Two Witnesses" are willing to come forward and testify, they pretend it never happened.No matter how wicked the offense may be. I have been on the receiving end of the assault many times. The grievance protocol of Matt.18:15 becomes unworkable, because the perpetrator has LIED and the issue will continue to fester. These,Watchtower wise guy's mealy-mouth elders,now off their ecclesiastical legal hook, proceed by ordering me to, "JUS FAGETT A BOUT IT". Moreover,they counsel me on my lack of forgiveness and how I should consider 'getting my head examined' for being such a paranoid mental case. This absurdity (the need of two witnesses) is an overextension of 2 Corn.13:1 and is selectively enforced at the whim of the elders who play favorites. Another take on the so called,"two witness take-down". All of the WT$ policy's are derived from legal counsel. The Lawyers have run the show since the early1980's. This is due to the massive onslaught of lawsuits brought on by the Watchtower's own fraudulent defaults. The Watchtower's primary interest is; the preservation of their vast real estate holdings [WT$ 'never-land ranch' complex.] If it wasn't for the Lawyers in control the Watchtower would be $ued out of existence. Matt. 10:16 states "To be cautious as a serpent, but innocent as a dove" The Watchtower's twisted mindset takes this to mean. ..... Taking an OBSTRUCTIONIST APPROACH by subterfuge of their ecclesiastical kangaroo courts to all claims against them. It's all conniving confabulation from the top down. This is the chief curricula (sleaze 101) that elders learn when they go off to their exclusive elders school seminars. Tactical tips on suborning perjury is what they call at kingdom school, "AOP" or Approved Operating Procedure. Arguing in the alternative the:Deception Deflection Directive Get into a jam we will cop-a-plea-we-a-o-p. They are the,control freaks with a mean streak, oppressive wolves in sheep's clothing' that Jesus and the apostle Paul warned about. To quote attorney; Jeff Anderson in a bold newspaper article that appeared in my hometown paper, Bangor Daily News :" They have a practice of giving sanctuary to known pedophiles". [ Joshua 22:20: "When Achan son of Zerah acted unfaithfully regarding the devoted things, did not wrath come upon the whole community of Israel? He was not the only one who died for his sin."] Like in the case of Achan's clan in the Old Testament;" they covered-up and they "got covered up" [2 Corn.11: 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. ]
Satan the devil is the father of all these cover ups. God knows this and no one will mock him........ Undaunted Danny Haszard Bangor Maine

Sunspot

Far from being deeply honest, Witnesses are deeply deceived - and deceptive.

So true.
I first heard about the "TW" being applied after a DC one year. The "Drama" was about Rahab and the roof and all that.......and it confused me (and started me -gasp-thinking) For a lady of her reputation and the fact that she outright lied......I wondered how she came up smelling like a rose?
The same with all those heartwarming tales of the JWs lying to soldiers in different countries with different circumstances....all liars! How could Jah reward or even sanction all these lies?
I asked an elder (with his wife and son) that were driving us home from this assembly, and I got that same answer...........they were using TW to protect Jah's interests and his purpose.
It raised even more questions in my mind, but accepted what he said because he was so much more informed about this type of stuff...me being a gullible and trusting "woman" and all (sigh).
Annie..............who went through Gullible's Travels for three decades.
tijkmo

i knew about theocratic warfare as a jw...and i would have used it not just to protect those with responsibilities but any of my 'bros'
not even with just the with-holding of truth either...but with bare-faced blatant lies..just like rahab did
but now if it becomes nessercary i think i will go tell the authorities where all those who treated me dispicably live or are hiding
and i think there is a difference between lying to the nazis...and deliberately hiding a child molester
hillary_step

SlimfatBoy,
As you long as you are in agreement that Jehovah's Witnesses lie in certain circumstances then this is a non-issue. I am not speaking of evasive action, I am speaking of lying for whatever reason.
Take an example. Glen How in a documentary regarding the Duplessis affair in the 50's in Quebec admitted that one of his legal staff telephoned the opposition pretending to be another person and was able to extract information from them.
Think of the parent who is groomed by WTS lawyers in custody cases to tell the courts that their child is allowed to pursue all extra-curicular activity at school in order to gain custody of that child and raise it as a Jehovah's Witness. If you have been a JW you know this to be a lie and that children who are Jehovah's Witnesses are seldom allowed to join sports teams for example, without congregation pressure being applied against them.
These examples have nothing to do with Nazi Germany.
Bergman was making the point that in certain circumstances the Jehovah's Witnesses will lie. He is not wrong.
HS
Satanus

In the internal wt publication on how to handle child custody cases, lying is encouraged. Specific examples of how to misrepresent wt directives are given. This document was released in the 70's, i believe, and is still used. Copies can be found on the net.
S
rebel8

I am always amazed when people come on xjw forums and accuse xjws of lying--the basis of the accusations being that they personally had no experience or knowledge of something another xjw said.
OP, do you honestly believe something didn't happen just because you personally didn't experience it or you don't recall it?
So you didn't experience it personally or don't recall it means someone saying it happened is automatically a liar? Here's a little cognitive behavioral therapy for you: Why, out of the handful of other possible explanations, did you automatically assume the explanation is they're lying?
Answer: The rush to call xjws liars is a throwback to borg brainwashing.
carla

They certainly do condone lying to anybody, not just authorities. In my case they suggested that my husband should sneak out of the house without my knowledge. If you don't consider that dishonest, I don't know what is! carla
Narkissos

Imo belonging to a group, serving a cause, wearing a label, holding a banner, always produces the same kind of double standards, double behaviour, double speech -- building on the sense of "us vs. them," "insiders vs. outsiders". Caring for the interests and "image" of the group is never very far from dishonesty -- which sometimes leads to a healthy "crisis of conscience" as we all well know.
Only this natural phenomenon of group dynamics is raised to a caricature in a sectarian movement like JWs, where it is even named, thematised and positively qualified in a number of ways, ranging from "theocratic strategy" (and to answer SBF's question, yes the expression was commonly used among JWs 20 years ago) to the apparently more harmless "good testimony". Pious lies become a way of life.
JWs are constantly taught misleading answers to a number of questions, such as: "Do you believe in Jesus' divinity?" "Do you believe only Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved?" "Would you let your child die without a blood transfusion?" "Are you free to disagree?" etc.

"Theocratic Warfare" - An Apostate Strategy?

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