Daniel 4......

by Stromboli 23 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Stromboli

  Let's assume that the 70 year prophecy will be confirmed by all archeologists and Geremia 29:10 is correctly rendered "at Babilonia" so 607-537 is fine.

  (I know everybody, but let's for a second)

  When we get to Daniel 4 we have the dream and the tree is compared to the king Nebuchadnezzar. The WT confirms this and all is fine.

  BUT

  in Chapter 6 of the book "Pay attention to Daniel Profecy!" under the subtitle "Seven Times That Effect Us" Pg 94, right at the beginning in four lines they change the premises and say that the tree "symbolizes the universal sovereignty of Jehovah". They don't give any other details about it and they don't seem preoccupied to prove with the scriptures that this sudden change is justifiable. Then, they go on and use this changed premise to support 2520 years and get to 1914.

  I'm no scholar but I can't honestly see where that came from? I mean this book is about Daniel prophecy I would expect to find a bit more about it. Where is the connection between the 7 times for Nebuchadnezzar and the end of gentile times and Jehovah sovereignty? Why the sudden change with non explanation?

  Maybe I don't know something and this is a stupid question but if it's not I hope the experts here will elaborete on it.

  Many thanks....
• 

  Stromboli

  C'mon people I need help.....

  Anyone I'll pay ya

  Well I mean ....I don't know about that....... we'll see
• 

  NeonMadman

  I'm no scholar but I can't honestly see where that came from? I mean this book is about Daniel prophecy I would expect to find a bit more about it. Where is the connection between the 7 times for Nebuchadnezzar and the end of gentile times and Jehovah sovereignty? Why the sudden change with non explanation?

  It comes from the same place as every other doctrine held by Jehovah's Witnesses: Because the Watchtower Society says so.
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  Stromboli

  Thanks NeonMadman

  But how would a JW defend that?
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  stevenyc

  a JW would defend it by showing JW stuff and saying 'it is so'

  Remember JDubs are taught that they are experts, so they believe it. However, they are just ordinary people so there will be no history lesson.

  steve
• 

  Alwayshere

  Ok, go to page 87 of the Daniel book. Daniel says the tree represents Nebuchadnezzar and that HIS rulership is to the extremity of the earth. Now the last paragraph is where the Society contridicts Daniel, they say "rulership to the extremity of the earth represents God's sovereignty." This has nothing to do with Daniel's dream but they work it in so they can continue with their lies. In paragraph11 Daniel says the 7 times is to pass over Nebuchadnezzar. Now page 94 the Society again says the tree represents God's sovereignty so they say 7 times passes over God's rulership but no where in Daniel's dream did he say anything about God's rulership. It represented Nebuchadnezzar and thats all it represented. The Society has to throw that in so they can have their 1914 doctrain. I'm no expert but I can see what the Bible says and what it doesn't say. Apostates run that organization. No where in the Bible does it say 7 times is to pass over God's rulership!
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  Farkel

  This thread trashes the "day for a year" notion the WTS uses to support Daniel 4. Without that, their whole interpretation collapses. Furthermore, we have to assume that "times" means years, which means "days of years" which then means "days of years" in which the days actually mean "years." What Rot!

  A Day for a Year": I Need a Beer

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/18573/1.ashx

  Farkel
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  Stromboli

  good points....

  I think this is so ovvious that is not there, that 607 becomes almost irrelevant...

  I wonder how scholar would defend that....
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  cyberguy

  Some good points Stromboli!

  Early publications of the Society (circa 1922 and before) actually state that God turned his universal sovereignty over to Nebuchadnezzer! More recent publications, however, try to deflect this obvious problem by restricting it to God's sovereignty with reference to the earth. But as you point out, the paragraph first states that the tree stands for God's universal sovereignty; their explaination is truly confusing! Anyway, did God actually turn his sovereignty over earth to a demon worshiper in 607 BCE? And even prior to that, did God turn his sovereignty over to the kingly line of David? Where is that in the Bible? The whole Gentile Times concept is simply CRAZY!
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  Navigator

  Don't you know the old saying: "He who writes the minutes gets to say what happened at the meeting". Most reputable scholars agree that the Book of Daniel likely wasn't written until 169 B.C., during a period when the Jews were under great stress. The general theme of the book is "hang on- God is in charge" and things will get batter.