GB Admits It Has No Answers, Blood

by Maximus 63 Replies latest jw friends

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    Glad to cya back, Tom/Zack,

    : As monochorionic (both monoamniotic and diamniotic) twins, triplets etc. develop and grow, so does the placenta. Pretty soon there are scores of intersections as the network of vessels from the umbilicals of each respective twin become more and more intertwined. Their blood is freely exchanged. This is quite common.

    Well, THAT certainly explains it in a perfectly clear manner for all of us dummies!

    Excuse me please, whilst I go bang my dummy head on the wall for an hour or two so I can figure all this "easy" stuff out, ok?

    Good to have you with us here, Tom!

    Farkel, who wonders what in-the-hell he means with that scientific stuff...

  • TD
    TD

    Farkel,

    Chorion - The outermost membrane of the embryo. Tiny finger-like projections from the chorion grow into the uterus. These tissues of the chorion and the adjacent part of the uterine tissue make up the placenta.

    Monochorioic - An oxymoron unless we are talking about identical twins, triplets, etc., in which case it means that the embryo split has occured after the formation of the chorion. Generally, identical twins will be monochorionic if the split occurs more than four days after conception. When this happens, the two babies will share a common placenta.

    Amnion - The innermost membrane that grows around the embryo itself. The cavity withinn the amnion fills with a fluid which keeps the embryo moist and protects it from injury.

    Monoamniotic - Another term that doesn't have any profound meaning unless we are talking about identical twins, in which case it means that they share the same amnion. This occurs if the split occurs more than eight days after conception.

    Diamniotic - Pretty much self explanatory. The twins have separate amnions

  • MacHislopp
    MacHislopp

    Hello Maximus,

    excellent post. I do agree with you.

    Now the WTS wants be careful and avoid making
    "sweeping " statements. I do believe that the
    www has got on their toes...!

    I also wonder like Francoise:

    "How DOES Jehovah communicate with the governing body? I have asked this question for years with no answer from anyone. Does the GB get together in a circle in a room in the corner in the dark holding hands and pray and the voice of Jehovah is heard by all? Is "new light" written in Hebrew length-wise on a strip of Charmin, rolled up and left on the front steps of Borg headquarters in a Hellman's mayonaize jar? Does an English-speaking Dove descend and sit on Ted's head and issue new light? Does the GB have a set of Urim and Thummin (Ex. 28:30) and roll them down the conference table and "divine" the will of Jehovah just like the Isrealites did? They determined the will of the creator of the universe of universes by playing with fancy ROCKS? "

    Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

  • Rex B13
    Rex B13

    Why do you have "no answer", Master Member Maximus? Are you the, "weakest link"?
    Rex

  • Maximus
    Maximus

    Anon asks: "Anyone else have experiences where elders did not take action despite knowing prohibited parts of blood were accepted?"

    I am privy to a few of these but not many. For obvious reasons the individuals involved do not wish to make this public. There are thoughtful elders out there--and some real thugs, including some traveling overseers.

    Also: "Interesting info about twin transfusion. Has Society ever commented on this? Has anyone brought this to their attention?"

    This deserves some background that may be helpful to many. It is fairly common knowledge in Bethel circles that one particular individual has been charged with writing about matters pertaining to blood. There are no experts other than this self-professed expert. To be charitable, his track record is rather bad when it comes to documentation and accuracy. Those around him do not possess the skills to recognize this, although a few certainly do and are vaguely or frankly troubled. What can they say or do about it?

    Here, frankly, is the pattern: A decision is made about policy, what doctrine will be. THEN an article is written, with quotations that ostensibly buttress, and scriptures that seem to apply. It's a basic flaw in presentation and been there for many years.

    (Remember the "nethinim" article that just didn't seem to work? The one on the heart actually thinking?)

    An impressive data base of 10,000 journals could be theoretically "reviewed" and some apparently supporting quotations lifted even out of context. Who would know? Who would know Professor Gorman's quotation in the 10/15/00 Watchtower grossly distorts the whole import of his book? They got it correct between the quotation marks, and that's all the lawyers care about. And with Pliny, and Tertullian, and ...... Once it is in print it's truth. I can attest to the comment made about Knorr saying, "Once it's left the sixth floor, it's truth." The old press room.

    One who seems to question anything will be pointed to what is already published as a product of a holy spirit guided faithful slave, and thus not to be questioned. That's the dilemma. Admittedly imperfect men, yet on pain of enforced shunning to be viewed as perfect/adequate/God's spokesmen.

    If you write "the Society," you will be answered by a department called Writing Correspondence, as others on this board have pointed out. Few letters ever get past this point. One may wait months for a veritable boiler plate response.

    So this teeny troublesome question that shows inconsistency would be brushed off as a nuisance. Even if your presentation cannot be refuted, you will be told to "wait upon Jehovah" like Micah, don't run ahead, He will correct matters in his good time. That's the watchword, together with: "No matter what facts you present, or what you say, this is still God's organization and he's using it."

    This works for only so long. This brief comment should answer CPiolo's question about me personally. I cherish friendships within the organization but my personal integrity ultimately comes first, and a clean conscience before my God. (CP, thank you so much for the kindness in supplying a certain need.)

    Hope this helps, anon. You are such a good person; you represent so very, very many who write me. Not only should the Society be concerned about the organizational Brain Drain; they should really worry about the Heart Drain.

    Maximus

    .

  • Eusebius Hieronymus
    Eusebius Hieronymus

    <The FDS is now in a situation more comparable to Chamberlain; "He was given the choice between dishonour and war. He chose dishonour and will have war anyway.">

    Whether by choice or chance, this statement is positively profound.

  • waiting
    waiting

    Hey Jerome!

    That's what I thought (well, almost) about that quote. Saved it in my Quote File (of deep quotes vs. my sarcastically funny quote file.)

    Glad you thought so too!

    Rather like damned if you do and damned if you don't.

    waiting

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Farkel thanks for the comments. I'm getting someone's attention eh? I have over the last few weeks met some outstanding people.

    Quite frankly Farkel, I find your comments most outstanding and I always make the point of reading them. Any one who lives on the "left" coast is cool to me.

    Thanks to everyone for noticing what the society is hiding from you wrt to the "natural movement" of blood doctrine.

    Why not ask your local HLCs these somewhat embarrasing questions that Maximus, Had Enough and others have posted.

    Again, thanks Maximus and I hope a lot of you are keeping this on file and Tom & TD thanks for the back up. What are your backgrounds?

    Oh, before I forget, someone who has a CD ROM of the WT rags should post that QFR from Oct 1 or 15, 1990 WT that deals with blood (the first time "natural movement" was mentioned). You will note that in this QFR, "God's chosen" state that the cellular portion of blood (ie. red blood cells, platelets and white blood cells etc. ) does not cross the placental barrier (ie. there is no natural movement of red blood cells never mind whole blood)!!!! Do you think that is a big time lie or what especially if you have a majorily funded HIS in Brooklyn and Canada?

    hawk

    p.s - good to see you again Jerry

  • Francois
    Francois

    Hey Ozziepost, you too have hit the nail on the head with, "...they try to cooperate with the Spirit's leadings."

    Um, isn't that what we ALL try to do? Why do we need a group of isolated, self-righteous old farts to do it for us? The same old farts who have a history of over a hundred years of failed prophecy to their credit, therefore identifying themselves as false prophets by ANY defintion, especially that found at Deut. 18:22?

    We do our best when we expose these false sheperds to the searching luminosity of truth - like that to which they will be subject following the Dateline piece.

    I really think we should come up with other outrageous elements of Dubdom for other elements of the press to consider. The press in general may not want to handle any more of the pederasty issue since "it's been done." But there is plenty of other stuff: the blood issue, shunning, even the neutrality issue as it relates to Malawi and all the dead witnesses there. The message being "joining the witnesses is costing people their lives."

    Francois

    Where it is a duty to worship the Sun you can be sure that a study of the laws of heat is a crime.

  • TD
    TD

    The quote is from The Watchtower. The emphasis and a few brief comments are mine:

    “It is significant that the blood system of a pregnant woman is separate from that of the fetus in her womb; their blood types are often different. The mother does not pass her blood into the fetus. Formed elements (cells) from the mother’s blood do not cross the placental barrier into the fetus’ blood, (1) nor does the plasma as such. In fact, if by some injury the mother’s and the fetus’ blood mingle, health problems can later develop (Rh or ABO incompatibility). However, some substances from the plasma cross into the fetus’ circulation. Do plasma proteins, such as immune globulin and albumin? Yes, some do.

    A pregnant woman has an active mechanism by which some immune globulin moves from the mother’s blood to the fetus’. Because this natural movement of antibodies into the fetus occurs in all pregnancies, babies are born with a degree of normal protective immunity to certain infections.

    It is similar with albumin, (2) which doctors may prescribe as a treatment for shock or certain other conditions. Researchers have proved that albumin from the plasma is also transported, though less efficiently, (3) across the placenta from a mother into her fetus.

    That some protein fractions from the plasma do move naturally into the blood system of another individual (the fetus) may be another consideration when a Christian is deciding whether he will accept immune globulin, albumin, or similar injections of plasma fractions. One person may feel that he in good conscience can; another may conclude that he cannot. (4) Each must resolve the matter personally before God." (The Watchtower, June 1, 1990, p.31)

    (1) Bianchi and others have proven this to be incorrect. A woman can have fetal cells in her blood stream more than thirty years after her last pregnancy.
    (2) It is not similar with albumin as there is no active transport mechanism involved and any transference is only incidental
    (3) A misleading statement in view of #2 above. There is no objective to apply the adverb “efficiently” to.
    (4) Absolute rubbish. The acceptance of blood fractions is not something that “some” Jehovah’s Witnesses do, as it is virtually unavoidable in modern society. Albumin for example can be found even in the MMR and Poliomyelitis (IPV) vaccines that children in most industrialized nations must have before they can attend school.

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