GB Admits It Has No Answers, Blood

by Maximus 63 Replies latest jw friends

  • blondie
    blondie

    I have been wondering since 1980 when transplants were made a conscience matter....1961 okay...1967 not okay....1980 okay. Why should the use of blood be any different.

    With blood fractions like hemoglobin allowed in "approved" JW blood products, several questions come to mind.

    HemAssist, etc., are made with outdated "stored" human blood donated by only non-JWs.

    How can JWs use products made with "stored" donated human blood?
    Why then cannot JWs donate blood?

    Pretty soon it will be like having a Talmud with all its additions to the law.

  • anon
    anon

    In another thread Anchor said:

    "Now just who can I talk to? I may have some good persons in my congregation with whom I can let down my hair, but even that is hazardous. I have not seen for a very long time a circuit or district overseer with whom I would dare talk, although friends may pinpoint a particular person as being more "understanding." Who would you dare tell that you do not believe the Bible prohibits saving a pregnant mother's life when she is bleeding to death and TWO lives are at stake? Happened. Blood was secretly given."

    Anchor - Who was aware blood was given? What transpired afterwards? Judicial action? Guilty conscience? Still JW's?

    Anyone else have experiences where elders did not take action despite knowing prohibited parts of blood were accepted?

  • anon
    anon

    Another question -

    Interesting info about twin transfusion. Has Society ever commented on this? Has anyone brought this to their attention?

  • Anchor
    Anchor

    <Anchor - Who was aware blood was given? What transpired afterwards? Judicial action? Guilty conscience? Still JW's?>

    I wrote in a passionate moment and likely said too much. But a deep breath and here goes anyway. Physician who was most understanding, arranging things so that it was not done in even an ICU where others would discover it. Husband who felt great relief that he had made a truly conscientious decision about two lives, no problem. Shook him to his teeth, began to look at other teachings, slowing down organizationally and not accepting assignments. Baby doing great, mother a total wreck and plagued by guilt, can accept it only because of headship, wanted to live for the baby but now thinks she is spiritually weak, ect, ect. One elder knew and encouraged husband, but knows he would have been thrown out in a minute if a very hard and rigid CO knew about it, or some other elders in the cong who would jump at the chance.

    I'm well aware of the directive not to pursue matters, but that's not really the way it works. Elders are rewarded for snitching and love to mix it up to show their power. The rewards are convention parts, special invitations, hobnobbing, and all that.

    Anchor

  • Billygoat
    Billygoat

    Anchor,

    I'm so sorry to hear about that experience! When you look at the fact that people's very lives are at stake, the rewards look so incredibly pathetic. How sad! We have so much more to live for outside The Tower!

    Billygoat

  • Francois
    Francois

    Max, buried in your original post is the nub of this and of the entire JW phenomena. That nub is, "...How did Jehovah reveal his long-hidden secrets...?"

    Just so!

    How DOES Jehovah communicate with the governing body? I have asked this question for years with no answer from anyone. Does the GB get together in a circle in a room in the corner in the dark holding hands and pray and the voice of Jehovah is heard by all? Is "new light" written in Hebrew length-wise on a strip of Charmin, rolled up and left on the front steps of Borg headquarters in a Hellman's mayonaize jar? Does an English-speaking Dove descend and sit on Ted's head and issue new light? Does the GB have a set of Urim and Thummin (Ex. 28:30) and roll them down the conference table and "divine" the will of Jehovah just like the Isrealites did? They determined the will of the creator of the universe of universes by playing with fancy ROCKS?

    How exactly does the GB determine new light (or old light, or ANY light, or an old grocery list, or any damn thing) from God? What is that mechanism?

    We know it can't be any of the methods suggested here, because the assisted, or unassisted, aprehension of the will of God through these methods has already been condemned by the GB as mysticism which, as we all know, is controlled by the deeminz!

    So what the hell is the technique of knowing the will of God used by the JWs, and how did they learn it? God must have told the GB which blood fraction has the soul in it, else how could they tell us what fraction we can transfuse?

    Enquiring minds want to know.

    How 'bout it Teddy boy? Wanna tell us how it is that the great Jah tells you what the new light is, or is it in reality nothing more than your bullshit opinion? I vote for the later.

    Francois

    Where it is a duty to worship the Sun you can be sure that a study of the laws of heat is a crime.

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Anchor,

    Thanks

    Also key in on the monochorionic pregnancy more than the TTT syndrome.

    In 75 to 95 percent of the time these wonderful and beautiful identical babies come into the world after NATURALLY SHARING their WHOLE blood. Not a part, fraction or component - whole blood.

    I brought this up with the board and with AJWRB back in March, 2001. My post died an ugly death until Maximus has shown you the way today - thanks big guy. Lee at AJWRB was excited about it when I brought it too his attention but I don't know what Sam or Lee did with it - they are very busy people with a lot on the go. I personally don't write the WTS. I prefer talking to people like Frank Gorman about the WTS (hehehehehe).

    But the point is that these blood nazis have spewed how they have doctors on staff (one even wrote in the 1980s the blood fraction part of the doctrine who I think might have left?) and review 3,600 medical journals. You would think unless they went a few rounds with the "stupid stick" that they knew about this at the time they wrote the "natural movement" part of the WT blood doctrine as new light in an October 1 or 15, 1990 WT rag.

    So remember when you see that "new light in 10 years from the people connected to God" and another few thousand have needlessly bled to death, those evil devil dudes who only love children already knew what God was thinking and now so do you!!!!

    Oh by the way, if you think they knowingly know about this and people are needlessly dying, what paricular definition (one word) should be used to describe certain individuals who are responsible for this almost 11 year policy?

    hawk

    - hey anyone watching the medical miracles on dateline tonight?? So cool.

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    Maximus and Hawkaw,

    Maximus, you said:

    The great Physiologist allows the "natural passage" of blood from one to another, and of course He would not break his own law. Isn't that the FDS reasoning used regarding the "placental barrier" argument used for approving albumin? Have I missed something?

    : Hawk also has countless articles on monochorionic pregnancies: two identical fetuses (individual humans to the FDS) sharing one placenta. I am indebted to him for reminding me that "the neat thing is that the fetuses are exchanging whole blood between the two of them 'naturally' because there is only one placenta!!!" Our Grand Architect knows this. Is this still a secret?

    Our Grand Architect knows all sorts of stuff. She just won't tell us any of it, so we have to figure it out by ourselves.

    The irony of this whole thing is that the WTS has been at least 50 years behind science and mostly medicine since Da Judge took the helm. One need only read samplings from any era of the "Golden Age" to see how wacky their views on health and medicine was. Unfortunately, those parents who were raised on that fodder of total shit, fed that fodder of total shit to their dub children. Has anyone bothered to think about why dubs love to flock to "alternative medicines?" I'm talking about voodoo devices that put electricity into your body to "heal" you. (My mom had one in the early-mid 1960's. I used to get a kick out of watching her arms and head twitch around when she got shocked by that thing. Heck, she could have had the same results by putting her finger on our lawnmower's spark plug when it was running, or wetting her finger and sticking it into one of the various electrical outlets we had in our modest home. But, NO! She had to pay MONEY for a fancy device when she could have had the same thrill for free!) I would have started our lawnmower up for her for FREE. I got shocked by that dang lawnmower many times and I never even got cured of acne, let alone cancer or other stuff. All I got from it was a SHOCK. Therefore, I conclude that lawnmowers are not "healing" devices. They are devices that cut lawns and on-ocassion will shock the schmuck that is dumb enough to touch their spark plug.

    On the otherhand, my Mother PAID serious money to get shocked, when she could have have that same experience in our garage without spending a dime. The only difference between her device and our lawnmower was that her device cost a whole bunch of money and it had thye most important thing that a device that costs a whole bunch of money should have: it had DIALS! Lawnmowers don't have dials. Expensive shocking machines have dials, though. That's why people pay the big bucks for them.

    When I was around thirteen years old and Mom was gone, and being the sick and curious person that I am/was, I took that box apart because I wanted to see what the dials could do that a live lawnmower spark plug couldn't do. I got that box apart and I traced the wires from the dials to see where then went. Then went to a ground on the box, that's where they went. In otherwords, they went nowhere. I knew.

    I didn't tell my Mom, though. She would tell Dad to beat me up. But I knew. I was around thirteen or so, and I remained a dub for another eleven years or so.

    Therefore, I'm not so smart, either. I'm not making this up.

    Hawkaw,

    Your comments are getting the attention of those who can understand them, and I know from my good friend Maximus that you are brilliant. When I can understand all that stuff and comment intelligently about it, I will. In the meantime, I won't.

    Farkel, who makes a note to study the "Blood Issue" Geesh. I had a hard time with Chemistry. But I'll work on it. I miss "Tom/Zach." Where is he? He knows tons of stuff about that, and maybe he could educate me.

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost
    How DOES Jehovah communicate with the governing body?

    Good question, Francoise. Would it surprise you to learn that members of the Australia Branch Committee DO NOT believe that their decisions are from Holy Spirit. Instead they recognise that their decisions are made by imperfect men BUT they try to cooperate with the Spirit's leadings.

    What does this mean? That the men themselves don't believe it's from H.S. even if the R&F do.

    As far as the teachings of the FDS, perhaps they would say it's something like the way in which an 'anointed' JW 'knows' that they are of the 144,000. You know how we used to refer to the text at Romans 8:16 "The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God's children." So perhaps in a similar way Holy Spirit 'bears witness' with the spirit of the FDS.

    No, don't worry, everyone, I don't believe it either!

    Cheers,
    Ozzie

    "You can know the law by heart, without knowing the heart of it"
    Philip Yancey, What's So Amazing About Grace?

  • TD
    TD
    I miss "Tom/Zach." Where is he? He knows tons of stuff about that, and maybe he could educate me.

    Gee Farkel, I'm touched.

    Actually, Hawk and Maximus have done a fine job and there's not much more to say. As monochorionic (both monoamniotic and diamniotic) twins, triplets etc. develop and grow, so does the placenta. Pretty soon there are scores of intersections as the network of vessels from the umbilicals of each respective twin become more and more intertwined. Their blood is freely exchanged. This is quite common.

    Less common is twin to twin transfusion syndrome (TTT) where one twin, the "recipient" gets more than his or her fair share of the blood, while the other twin, the "donor" is robbed. The upshot is that one twin is born with an overload circulatory system while the other is born severly anemic. Both conditions are life threatening and require immediate attention. However it is at this point were current WTB&TS policy rears its ugly head, because an important and sometimes only means of saving the anemic twin is forbidden to Witnesses.

    Tom

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