NL2, I know, I know. I didn't mean to say what I said. I talked to her a few minutes ago and told her I was sorry again and that I did not mean to offend her. I am seeking knowldge and frustrated by what I don't understand. She said there was need to say sorry and that she understands it is hard for me. I am going to reread you posts and print them out to reread again. You have offered me good advice and I didn't follow it.
New developement
by Shawn 29 Replies latest jw experiences
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kls
Shawn ,if nothing else remember it takes time ,alot of time . You will not change her in a day ,a week ,or even a month and then if she does see some of the lies the WT has she may still never get out . Everyone is different but some people just don't care if the WT is hiding secrets because they are scared of the End coming or being corrupted by Demons.
Keep trying but do it in baby steps and like i told you before ,take it easy on youreself.
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Check_Your_Premises
Well I am glad to hear she is talking to you still.
You better chill out though. She already shouldn't be talking to you since you are a bad association. If you are an opposer forget it! Your only opportunity to talk to her is as a student of her religion.
So how long are you going to keep this up? Does her mother care? Are you supposed to care more for her than her family?
No offense dude, but is she that hot?
Well, like I said before you are a good friend and she is lucky to have you.
BUt this situation will never happen.
Shawn: JW can't be true because of this, this, and this.
JW: You are right, I never thought of that. I think I will now leave the one group that has made me feel for the first time that someone has all the answers. Even though they tell me what is right, and I don't have to struggle with right and wrong I am going to leave because of what you said. All these dear friends that I have made will never talk to me again, but I just can't refute your logic.
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Check_Your_Premises
And dude, you need to take a break from this board. You are going to find some good advice here, but you are also going to hear from some very bitter people! They can really get you worked up, believe me! Read some of my mid-May threads and you will see what a basket case I was.
You have almost posted as much as me in the last few weeks as I have since I have been here. And I was trying to keep my wife from getting baptized!!!
(Keep in mind I made all the mistakes you have made already)
Get away from here for a week. Keep in touch with her, but talk about something besides jw, and friggin relax. You don't have children with this woman. She can't let your kids die cuz they need blood. There are some people here with very serious problems.
Relax.
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bebu
Try flowers (pick some from your garden) and a plate of cookies. Tell her you felt awful, because you are trying to sort it out and in the process she got run over. Tell her you are clumsy at discussion, and are sorry her feelings got hurt. Humility and kindness can repair things... just swear off the railroading for good.
Realize that if you are ever to discuss JWs with her, make the whole thing comfortable. Make her feel safe! When I chat with my JW neighbor, we are having coffee and eating cookies EVERY time. Lean back in your chair. Crack a joke if the tensions get building again. Decide to quit early if you have to, rather than gamble for double or nothing. If you are discussing something tough and you both fall silent, don't be worried! It is a good environment if you are both able to think silently.
Whenever she makes a valid point, I make a point to acknowledge it. And not just acknowledge it and then toss it, but to demonstrate fairness, and respect of her thinking process. Matters are complex, and whenever you can acknowledge anything that is right in some sense, she'll trust your judgement as being honest rather than grossly biased. Trust is built up over time. I have earned her trust thru some pretty tough times for her.
Hang in there, Shawn. Practicing these things isn't easy. Losing patience is easily done. You can get better with pacing this over time.
bebu
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Shawn
bebu and CYP, I think I will take a break. You guys are right and instead of being me I am obsessed.
CYP, she is beautiful but that really is not it. Her soul is at stake and possibly her life. I don't have children with her but she does have a son and I love him too. I have spent a lot of time with her and her son. I want her to be happy and put faith where it belongs. I will step away for a while though.
Her mom said she will read the info I have given her tomorrow. She is trust worthy but I might still tell her to hold off. I am not sure.
Thank you guys. I am here to learn from you and I am glad I have you. -
kls
Shawn , i feel so bad for what you are going through and i remember those days like they were yesterday and i know the hurt is deep.
Like the wise have said , take a break ,give her a break and rethink your stratigies.
Don't ever feel bad coming and asking for help because we are more then happy to .
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Hondo
Shawn,
I am not a JW, but want to throw my 2 cents worth into this whole frail. I have chatted with CYP in the past regarding this subject. I lost my wife to the JW's a little over a year ago. I made the same mistakes you're making now. TAKE YOUR TIME. You will never win an augument against her. She is in her little JW paradigm box and will stay there now that they have taken hold of her. The more you try to show her that the WTS is wrong or an evil organization the deeper she goes into the recesses of her box. Again, TAKE YOUR TIME. I did the flower bit to the point that our home almost looked like a floral garden. I love the hell out of her and tried to rationalize with her about what she was doing to our marriage and family. She did not care. I should have taken my time, I didn't. I wanted to "cure" her immediately and make her the way she was before the JW's got their hooks into her; and there was a distinct change in here when this happened by the way. She became a different woman, very distant and aloof. She never told me about her involvement to begin with (upon recommendation of the JW who was doing her bible study with her). I finally found out by discovering (about 8 months after she had started) an Awake she had hidden. She essentially divorced me after she became seriously involved with them. I simply became an object in her life, not the husband she once had. On her list of important things in her life her family, me, our life, our holidays, etc. were relegated to the end of the list. WTS, Jehovah, meetings, service work, etc. now were at the top of the list.
I could go on and on Shawn. Again, if you value this friendship at all, TAKE YOU TIME. This means you may have to slowly work with her for year, two years, three, maybe more. I did not heed this advice when I was in you shoes and lost a wife of 20 years because of it.
Best of luck to you.
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bebu
I didn't mention anything about putting things on the back burner and backing off, but I think that is a good idea too.
Let her bring up the subject next time, and when she does, keep it light, keep it feeling natural. When you do get into a conversation again, remember to play her like a salmon. (Don't begni to reel in fast; with a salmon, you generally have to let out a lot of line before you begin to reel.)
Even with the many suggestions, there is NO guarantee about a result. It's just that you can be heard longer, and your chances for making an impact can be greater.
bebu
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NewLight2
Ok, Shawn, time for plan B:
First of all, even though you 'messed-up' due to lack of experience, not all is lost. So take heart, and do not be so hard on yourself.
Since she now sees you as a potential 'opposer', you need to re-gain her trust. At this point this is not a hard job to do, since it seems that she has accepted your apology for now. You need to retrace your steps backward and become an 'interested one' again. As long as she thinks of you as an 'interested one' she will not cut you off. However if she views you as 'a worldy person' or an 'opposer' she may cut the ties. Why not try attending the KH for a time?
JW's usually attend the KH that is closest to their home. Does your friend live near you? Is her KH in your 'territory'?
For a time, it may be a good idea to attend a different KH then that of your friend, as this will allow you more freedom to learn about the JW's without the fear of 'messing things up' with your friendship. (I'm not telling you to break off contact with her - I'll post more on how to continue your friendship in an another paragraph.)
Your goal in attending the KH is primarily to show your friend that you ARE interested in learning more about how JW's 'worship'. You can also use this time to make 'friends' with a few other JW's. DO NOT TRY TO CONVERT ANY OF THEM AT THIS TIME! Your conversations should center on light topics only - fishing, weather, hobbies etc. IF they offer to give you a 'free Bible study' accept the offer. This will show your friend that you really are an 'interested one'. Just keep us posted and we'll continue to help you in this learning process.
It may be a good idea to leave the topic of 'religion' mostly out of your conversations with your friend for a time. Try just doing fun things with her and her son. Go to movies. Go to the beach. Go on a picnic. As long as you are attending the KH or 'studying' she will be allowed to 'associate' with you.
Put all attempts at 'rescue' on hold for a while, but do continue on with YOUR own learning process. Are there any people who go to your church interested in counter-cult ministry? Maybe you can find someone there who shares your concern.
Keep us posted on the events as they happen and feel free to continue posting your questions here on JWD.
NewLight2