While at uni I studied some interesting ideas on deconstruction and also surrealism - it got me thinking that we are all indoctrinated no matter where we are in life - every time we turn the TV on we soak in ideas and attitudes that affect how we are.
Even trying to cut ourselves off from external influences merely allows our inner voice to continue crystalising our inner feelings - even if they are 'wrong.' I have a philosphy that we are all in intellectual cages and its very hard to think outside the box, once you escape one box(for example maybe religion) you find yourself in another box and so on.
For want of a better word I would describe everyone as having a personal religion - a set of beliefs they tenaciously hold to and live by (for example there is a definate anti-God religion practised by some on this board and they are as vociferous as any preacher in constantly reaffirming their belief in no God - and thats not a criticism its just an observation.)
To sum up, any deprogramming , conquering of indoctrination merely means that you are replacing one indoctrination with another IMHO. I guess that maybe a key to 'choosing' your indoctrination is 'does it make me happy without harming others?'
Have you conquered the indoctrination?
by Frog 33 Replies latest jw friends
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Qcmbr
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fifi
How many years away from the faith do you have to spend before the old inputs are completely overwritten by the new ones, will it take another 19years??
I once heared a specialist say (in a TV documentary about cults incl. JWs) that it takes about as long as one was in a cult to successfully deprogramme that individual. I know it's probably not what you wanted to hear but I must say that in my case it has been true. I was brought up a JW and left at age 18, I'm now almost 36 and it has only been in the last year that I've begun to find myself and some sort of "inner peace".
Fifi
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alw
interesting post frog,
i wasnt brought up in the org. like most of you, i was conned when i was 29, i remained there for 22 years. just this year i havent been to meetings and am fading as quietly as possible at the moment.
for the first 9 months i had feelings of i wonder if im wgong their right, only this last 2 or 3 months i feel the indoctrination has loosened its grip. i believe im moving on fast now, not as much guilt etc.
i put this down to reading c.o.c. ray franz, and steven hassans releasing the bonds, and of course being able to view and participate on this site.
a point to consider too is i was an adult when i joined, you and others were like my children, "brought up in the truth" maybe it takes longer for people who were younger and grew up knowing no different. adults like myself were older ,and maybe not as impressionable.just a thought.
just 2 months ago i said there was no way i would celebrate b.days, xmas etc. now i dont care, so i think im on the road to recovery already, i hope your road goes as fast.
regards mr.alw.
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diamondblue1974
Good thread post...its a really point to make because (especially if we were brought up in it) the lapses and the flashbacks can still remain there 10 years down the line; my own experience is testament to this...some weeks ago i was having an interesting chat with a client of mine...who also happens to be good friend too and we were discussing religion and politics...the sort of things you do at 3am...after a few too many single malts. Hes actually quite well up on philosophy and well regarded in his field.
At one point in the discussion he mentioned that religion had no real place in politics and that soon in his view governments would have to turn on religion and perhaps would even ban it altogether....now for a split second I semi panicked, for those who understand what we were taught as JW's im sure you will understand too...The level of indoctrination that we are subjected to is dangerous and controlling and it takes a great deal of time to get through.
To answer Frogs question; yes i have conquered the indoctrination but still suffer from the occasional flashback and lapse; i am now strong enough to question everything I am told and accept nothing without proof.
While at uni I studied some interesting ideas on deconstruction and also surrealism - it got me thinking that we are all indoctrinated no matter where we are in life - every time we turn the TV on we soak in ideas and attitudes that affect how we are.
Excellent point...we are all conditioned by our environments...
DB
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El blanko
How many years away from the faith do you have to spend before the old inputs are completely overwritten by the new ones, will it take another 19years?
Well personally I reckon you move further away from any body of teaching by employing critical thinking, by yourself, within the areas that bind you.
It takes effort and tenacity.
There is a shorter route out if you are willing to place faith within others experiences and research. This board being a prime example.
Or, you may have been so severly wounded by an incident within the body of the WTBTS, that naturally you recoil from the source of hurt, demonize the source and then move on.
I think it's different for each person depending upon their analytical skills and experience.
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ShadowX
If you want an honest answer I sill have to say that I almost never leaves you completely. It's still somewhere in the back of your mind even as you try to reprogram it.
Why? Not sure, but I'd guess it is because they use logic that is appealing to our senses and sounds right. It takes quite a lot of advanced knowledge into how mind works before you're able to appreciate that.
I would suggest you to enroll into some sort of college level programme that will teach you how to properly and critically think before you even try deprogramming yourself... just a thought. -
Shania
No, I'm a work in progress, I look forward to the day when not one thought of the JWism will be in my head. It is hard because familys in, so they feel you are there project to get active again. I want to say stop telling me this stuff, I tell my very devout mom,"I'm on a sabbaticle from the religion," but dosen't phase her, I get the mags from her, the truth updates, the assembly dates, and oh yes the most holy gossip on the ones in the congregation.
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inquirer
googlemagoogle
been raised and baptized a JW, have not left (yet), but i don't believe anything of their teachings (and christianity in general) anymore. some time ago (last year? or even before?) i checked the list on www.watchtower.org about what jws believe. i made a checklist of how many points i can agree with. by then i didn't believe even half of them anymore. now i disagree with all of them.
though, there are some times, really rare times, when the thought comes to mind, what if there's a god that judges this and that. but then i quickly remind myself of why there is no jehovah, and if there would be (an)other god(s), he/she/it/they can't judge me, because he/she/it/they didn't make it clear what he/she/it/they want(s).
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Hi. Remeber that debate we had? I hope you are not mad at me! We just didn't see eye to eye on the Bible! I am surely not mad at you! I like you as a person!
I find you to be a very interesting person! This post is just one of many examples! :) ...you are very strong-willed in your thinking. Very good. :D -
inquirer
I find it pretty sad that people want to (as I always put it to my friends in real life) "pushing the reset button" in your mind. I wish I could do that to all those people who don't want to believe in JW doctrines.
I'm in a very tiny minority on this board that still believes in most of their doctrines! But hey! I am also one of those people who would love to deprogram people if that's what they choose to believe! I am a normal person! I wish I could wave a magic wand (I'm not so paranoid about that term anymore!! -- It's only a game) like on King's Quest (you can tell I love sierra games and Lucas Arts for that matter) and whola! You are officially a wordly person!
I don't care that you people don't believe in JW doctrines like me! :) Like what Raymond said we all have our own personal relationship with God! We really do! God is the only one who knows what you are thinking and knows what's best for you! The Jo Ho's can't help you! I tried to get them to help me! But they can't! They are too cult-like to help anyone! I was actually thinking of going back and just go to another cong! But this messageboard has helped turn that around. It all started with that question "Do Jah Witnesses keep records on people?"
...Also... I honestly love reading the posts. It's very entertaining! I get these belly laughs! I love it when people do that to me!
Just by the very fact you are not going to the meetings, shows you have a lot of control!
I guess there is one way of looking at it: people never get over things in their life. Some people... they get divorced and it cripples them! In Australia, it's the women who win! They get like 70% settlement! NO WONDER NO ONE FORGETS ABOUT THAT! Of course from time to time, you'll think about that! Really torturous things never leave your mind! If anyone has been raped on here - you never forget that!!! Because it's so shocking!!!
In a way the JW's have "raped" people's minds because of that cold treatment of people.
I'd rather be treated badly by the Daleks than the JW's! :D lol lol! I'd rather put up with Doctor Smith on Lost In Space! :D lol
You have to force yourself not to think about it too much! You have to move on! You have to accept the damage done but just think about all the time you spent OUT OF THE ORGANIZATION and help other people not to go there! If you are in a coffee shop and you get the thought in your mind you have to think "no no! I am in the coffee shop! I'm talking to my girlfriend!" My girlfriend is the most important thing to me now. Shake it off!
Torturous experience are hard to brake off! But just think you are out of there. REmember to, keep yourself busy. When you are depressed it sets off a number of emotions! Unfortunately our retarded brains think of the retarded Jo Ho's! But that's not the only bad experience! This is just normal. Your brain is just reminding you not to Jo Ho again! :) Always keep your mind focused on things you like, don't look at the past and just look forward. REad a book, watch TV, go and have beer with your mates, keep your mind steady. Even when you work you balance your mind there too.
If you are religious you have to pray to God in your own way! And ask him to take away the pain. But you have to keep doing in on a continual basis to emphasis how much it's hurt you!
I hope I've helped today. -
inquirer
IN Australia they are playing the whole (classic) Doctor Who series. That had taken my mind of the JW's quite a lot!
I was too young when it was on. But I love seeing story after story.
lol Just think about how scary those stories are! Don't you feel sorry for the Doctor dealing with all those foes! :D It's hard for him, isn't it? :D I'd be more concerned with that! :D