Wrong date (page 3)

Fredhall

drahcir yarrum,

You better look at your name before you call someone a dummy.

The original calculation was done by a catholic monk about 500 years ago. I don't have more source book with me, but I will look when I get home. Russell (the founder of the JW's) got all of his chronological stuff from other sources. 1914 is the only one still in use.

individual

Fred Hall - How can the sister promise tattoogirl everlasting life if all that she is telling is based on a falsehood.

Humble - The date 587 is calculated from eclipses that happened during the Babylonian period and fortunately for us the Babylonians recorded all these events in the years of the king who happened to reign when they happened. With modern computer technology they can now work out when all the eclipses would have occurred and they agree with the 587 date. The business documentation is likewise based on the reigns of the kings, they have thousands of documents but none at all for the supposed 20 years to bring it to 607. All these documents run from 539. As far as the 70 years goes the scriptures say that it is 70 years that they serve Babylon and once it has been fulfilled they call an account against the king of Babylon (ref. Jer.10-12).

tattoogrl333 - After 25 years of being a JW this was one of the issues that led me to leave the organisation. The organisation is not humble enough to admit that it is wrong, the ramifications of saying that 1914 is no longer the date of the setting up of Jesus Kingdom would mean that they would lose the respect and the obedience of all those who follow them, so losing their credibility. The society will expect you to follow what it says to the letter without question, even if all the evidence points to the opposite to what they say. Fred Hall and others have to hang on to their belief because the desire to believe is so strong. Fred Hall calls us fools but who is more foolish - somebody who follows something blindly and ignores all the faults especially a whopper such as 607 - or somebody who asks logical questions. Following something like this causes great hardship, it is very demanding and you have to make sure it is completly accurate.

Saying 607 is like saying World War 2 started in 1919, everybody knows that it started in 1939. I would challenge Fred Hall and others to provide EVIDENCE that 607 is the correct date and it is no good just trying to give their own interpretation on the 70 years in the scriptures, there is a very good line of reasoning that shows that they are wrong on that interpretation as well. Remember this also - the society believed that Jerusalem was destroyed in 606 until they realised that there was no year 0 and instead of changing 1914 they decided to change 606 to 607. This shows the importance that they put on 1914 - they would rather change history than their own prophetic date. Russell only stuck to 1914 because World War 1 started in that year, and this was only due to coincidence, since it started in June and the kingdom was supposedly established in October. I would say to any witness that this is crucial since all their doctrines are based on this date.

ianao

tattoogrl333:

Also remember this:

It may sound real good for a witness to tell you that they base their chronology on "God's word" rather than secular sources, but just remember that they are biased to making you a member of their flock. Not everything is a battle between good or evil. Sometimes, their just selling something.

-ianao

JeffT

Tattoogrl333:

Shunning, harsh elders and some of the other things you mention are not the reasons why you should not become a JW.

The reason you should not become a witness is because they do NOT teach the Bible correctly. Their method of interpretation is seriously flawed. They do not take into consideration the writer of any particular book of the Bible, his audience, or the historical context. They also lift verses out of their context so they can make them say what they want them to. This is intellectually and religiously dishonest.

By the way, my letter is still available if you want it.

Jeff Thomas
[email protected]

paulvarjak

To discard 1914 would be to discredit thier entire foundation. They would then have to discard 1919 when they were 'chosen' as 'God's Organization' which is the cornerstone of the Organization. The bigger issue is that 1914 is the only speculative date they have pointed to where something perceivable actually happened, World War I. It has always been their trump card. They claim divine backing and have trumpeted their special understanding. For example:

"In the 'Watchtower' magazine of March, 1880, they said: 'The Times of the Gentiles extend to 1914, and the heavenly kingdom will not have full sway till then.' Of all people, only the witnesses pointed to 1914 as the year for God’s kingdom to be fully set up in heaven." (From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained, pg. 170).

Of course, at the time they believed the Gentile times had started in 1874 and would end in 1914 but that's a whole other thread.

Many Witnesses will tell you that 'dates don't matter'. Don't believe it. Without the 1914 belief, they are just another wierd fundamentalist group.

outnfree

Without the 1914 belief, they are just another wierd fundamentalist group.

Precisely why I decided to leave.

Shunning, harsh elders and some of the other things you mention are not the reasons why you should not become a JW

I respectfully disagree. Shunning, harsh elders and some of the other things you mention are WARNING signs you are reading that point out the fact that LOVE is lacking in the Jehovah's Witness organization, even though your study conductor seems rather nice and mellow.

But Jeff is right that they teach many things out of context. They also teach many extra-biblical commands of men.

Keep looking, keep researching, Tatoogrl. And keep asking questions!!!

outnfree

scholar

tattoogrl 333

It is not surprising that you have found a different date of 586 instead of 607 for the Fall of Jerusalem. In point of fact there are very few dates in biblical history that have unaminous support of scholars. You will find that this is the case even with the dates connected with Jesus Christ on earth which occurred six centuries after the the Fall of Jerusalem. Scholars have have no evidence for 586 or 587, but simply base their calculations upon their interpretation on secular chronology which is fraught with difficulties. The date 607 is based also upon interpretation of biblical history but is mor credible as it establishes the beginning of the Gentile Time ending in 1914. In short, 607 works as it establishes prophecy, 586 or 587 are useless dates as these dates are 'dead ends'.

Bibliclal chronology is not an exact science so I would urge caution before being influenced by those who have no knowledge and appreciation of its complexity. Your teacher no doubt can supply information published by the Society that will facilitate your understanding as to how 607 is calculated. A major flaw in the argument supporting 586 or 587 is that scholars cannot determine exactly what year is correct. This fact alone should cause one to exercise soundness of mind and use one's critical thinking.

scholar

Jeremy Bravo

So what Scholar just said is that the 607 date is correct because it points to 1914, which, of course, is the the correct date for the end of the gentile times. 1914 is the correct date because (s)he has a ton of Watchtower literature that says so.....

Why am I wrong for thinking that line of reasoning is absolutely bogus?

Jer.

ianao

scholar spewed:

The date 607 is based also upon interpretation of biblical history but is mor credible as it establishes the beginning of the Gentile Time ending in 1914. In short, 607 works as it establishes prophecy

In other words, once again, without 1914, the witnesses are like any other fundy group as stated earlier. Thank you "scholar" for at least admitting that 607's purpose is to support 1914.

A major flaw in the argument supporting 586 or 587 is that scholars cannot determine exactly what year is correct. This fact alone should cause one to exercise soundness of mind and use one's critical thinking.

Hmmm... Interesting "critical thinking" considering that you are taking a date with less historical support than 586/587 and teaching it as "established fact". Scholar, have we forgotten (perhaps you are not even aware) that the witnesses used to teach... GASP!! ... 606BCE? I like your society's "let's pick a date and use it to cover up a misprediction of christ's return" critical thinking ability scholar, it makes for a good chuckle every now and then.

Wrong date

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