JWs ....Transplants - Canibalism

by JW Ben 40 Replies latest watchtower medical

• 

  hamsterbait

  Thank you JW Ben.

  I am so grateful for your extensive coverage of this issue with supporting quotes.

  I am printing this out now, and intend to use it to alert people as to how the WTS cleverly manipulates and controls peoples's thinking so completely they deny it is happening (Like you do)

  The 1980 article would not have been necessary if JWs were already accepting transplants regularly, and is an example of how WTS pulls the rug from under the rank and file while insisting "we never explicitly told you to do that. So it's your own fault!"

  They did the same over 1914 1925 acupuncture, their spiritual diagnosing machine (see www.watchthetower.com)

  How can I ever show my gratitude to you, you loyal little toaster.

  Oh! I know - you can be disfellowshipped for visiting these sights. Take my advice: stop coming here and hold onto your everlasting living death.

  HB
• 

  JW Ben

  I understand from the posts that I struck quite a cord.

  1st I was A JW in 1967.

  2nd I will not reply to any one individual that swears or makes fun or shows a loack of respect for the thoughts of others. I will at times reply to sensable statements. That is why I am relpying at this time to those that made sensable comments.

  3rd I have done what many have done quickly read material and not the fine print. As I mentioned in my first post on this the WTS did lean toward not having a transplant but still left it up to the individual.

  They put their nose into this matter because they were asked. They gave Blble principles that JWs should consider, but did not say they could not.

  For the person that made coments about conscience matters and said everything is a matter of conscience, well it is not. God has laws agianst sex outside the marrage bonds, murder, stealing, etc, as well as religouis laws about what he accepts as acceptable worship. We are free to follow or not follow those laws. Blood is one such law that must be followed. Transplants of organs are grey areas.

  For those that did not have a transplant in the 70s that was thier decission to make. just as it is the decision of those now that will not have a transplant.

  Yes there are some areas of the WTS I do not see eye to eye with. Still I follow the Bible not the WTS.

  Why do I occationally come here? Not to talk to ex witnesses but to put a balacing argument forward to any JW that might be here that is being misslead away from the creator by the reasoning of ex JWs.

  I really belive that most ex JWs have some sort of griviece. I have against local elders. Ny grivence is in them not doing the christian thing not with Jehovah. My grivences is with the GB for sepping beyond their bounds. Not with Jehovah

  I honestly belive that the basic teachings of JWs is the clossets to the Christian truth that any other religion. I do not look to any man nor an organisation for salvation, but I do beleive that one has to attacht hemselves to the group of people that Jehovah is well pleased with and that we as individuals must work out our own salvation. The WTS serves as a reminder as to what God requires (and at times as to what he is displeased with).

  Why do I seem to be backing the WTS? To give a balancing view to the often missinformation spread against them. See my web page homepages.picknowl.com.au/hepburn I have not updated that for a whiule but i am working on it by getting both points of view.
• 

  jwsons

  Hopeless guy. Hi evryone, just use your Watchtower CD Rom and type "Cannibalism" in searching Watchtower volumes, then you will find yourself how "The Society" misleading and killing many lives without regret, pour all blames to all the brothers who died because of "faithful" to the liars
  Here
  
  jwsons
• 

  Rabbit

  JW Ben,

  I think I am being respectful when I asked you these questions on pg.1:

  Now that the WT says it "might" be OK to accept transplants...here are 2 questions for you:

  Is it OK for just a little 'foreign' blood to be introduced to your body during surgery...how much exactly is too much?

  Are you aware that in all transplants there is quite a bit of blood from the donor within the cells, veins and arteries ? Especially in blood rich organs like the liver.

  Please explain how transplants are OK again, if NO amount of blood is allowed?

  Rabbit

  So-o...what do you think? How do you think the WT explains blood vessels and organs FULL of blood...being OK for Transplants?

  The other thing is, I wanted to say I am glad that you are an open minded enough person to realize the WT is not infallible. That will serve you incredibly well in your search for what YOU can accept as TRUTH in your life. You will end up with YOUR educated opinion, just like I did. I believe totally different than many X-JW's here...I could never say again, "I have the Truth", but, I know what I can live with.

  For instance, there are people who are aethists...they have lost all faith in a "God" because of their personal experiences with the WT. I "think" the majority...stick around & see...do believe in a Creator, some not the Bible one. After over 30 years in the JW's myself...I understand how that could scare you, it did me...at first. Now I realize...NO ONE can MAKE me lose faith or change my beliefs...except me! I listen and read opinions, I'll read links to 'other' religions...it's not dangerous. It is an education. I am free to accept or reject.

  The very nicest thing I have learned is: Whatever religious beliefs someone decides upon...will not affect me, I do not WANT to have control over their thoughts or things THEY must be able to live with. As long as they are not hurting me or my family...Free Will is a good thing.

  Rabbit
• 

  Sunspot

  They are still doing damage control to clean out his very weird doctrines and ideas. If you are honest with yourself look into things fully and don't do little info bites from here and there.The days of the WT or anyone else conning us are long past.Try to think for yourself..It only hurts for a litttle while.

  That's for sure. It's amazing how JWBen even believes (or would have us to believe) this cleverly worded and manipulated "understanding".

  Mental gymnastics at its best.

  Annie
• 

  coffee_black

  JWs make their decisions based on what the society tells them. Obedience is expected and enforced. My father died because he obeyed them, and they are accountable. before God. You can try to ignore that fact if you want to, but that doesn't make you balanced. It just means you are creative in your denial.

  My father was a well known elder and an extremely intelligent man. (He was an architect and engineer who had been asked to participate in the Manhattan Project and turned it down because he was a JW). His IQ was off the charts. Yet he believed what the society told him regarding transplants and it cost him his life. You cannot dismiss the society's accountability so easily. If they hadn't taken the position they did, and published it, then and only then would it have been a decision for the conscience of the individual.

  The crazy part of this is that I stayed in for more than 10 years after this. It is not the reason I left. It was one piece of evidence in a long list that proves that they are not who they claim to be.

  Coffee
• 

  Leolaia

  As I mentioned in my first post on this the WTS did lean toward not having a transplant but still left it up to the individual.

  They put their nose into this matter because they were asked. They gave Blble principles that JWs should consider, but did not say they could not.

  Because as I said, they did not need to. Think of it this way: Can you think of any other matter that is left up to the individual which Society explicitly says is something that Jehovah does not permit? No? If Watchtower flatly stated in an article that "Jehovah God does not grant humans permission to eat human flesh" -- does that mean that a Jehovah's Witnesses working in morgues can snack on the cadavers they process, if they so please? Come on.

  The Society didn't have to make an explicit command .... they let Jehovah God do it for them.
• 

  Poztate

  Why do I occationally come here? Not to talk to ex witnesses but to put a balacing argument forward to any JW that might be here that is being misslead away from the creator by the reasoning of ex JWs.

  JW Ben...I am pleased that you have come here to put a "balancing arguement foreward" for any JW lurkers.

  I hope they all read this full thread...with an open mind. Some might decide to side with your interpetation of this issue.

  Most...if they are honest with themselves will see the real truth about the matter and we will welcome the new comers to JWD
• 

  DanTheMan

  11/26/1976 11:36 a.m.
  

  "Good morning, Watchtower"

  "Hello, this is Brother Smith from the Smithville USA congregation, I am in need of some guidance regarding a medical procedure that one of our local brothers is preparing to undergo"

  "Ok, I'll put you through..."

  *ring*

  "Brother Jones Speaking"

  "Hello Brother Jones, this is Brother Smith from the Smithville USA congregation, I am in need of some guidance regarding a medical procedure that one of our local brothers is being urged to undertake by his doctors. They are urging him to have a kidney transplant. The brother has been on dialysis for the past few years, and lately his health has been deteriorating and the doctors think that a kidney transplant is the only way to keep him from dying. This brother is a fine, mature brother who has served in our area for quite a few years. He hasn't served as an elder for the past few years, largely because of his health condition, but he is still quite well-known by the friends. We're worried that his having the procedure done may cause some of the friends to be stumbled."

  "Well, those certainly are valid concerns brother. The Society made it quite clear in the 11/15/67 QFR that really, organ transplants are akin to cannabalism. It is using the flesh of another person to sustain one's own life. Of course cannablism is something that would be very displeasing to Jehovah."

  "So if this brother were to have this procedure done, would we need to form a judicial committee?"

  "Well brother, it would seem that the Bible principles involved here are quite clear..."
• 

  JW Ben

  Yes there is some residual blood in organ transplants. The jews were aloowed to eat the marrow of aninmals with residual blood.

  It is a difficult matter to know where to draw the line, that is why we have a conscience.

  There are definite "rules" or laws set out in the Bible by Jehovah as to what is not right. then there are grey areas.

  EG take for example blue and green. There is a definate difference between the two colours. Draw a line with blue at one end and green at the other, and start to shade them toward each other. In the middle we have aqua. The blue is easy to distinguish from the green, and for each person looking at the line they will have a different opinion as to what area is aqua, or where blue ends and green starts.

  The Bible spells out the missuse of blood. That is plain. but just where it becomes OK is a grey area. With the Israelites they had to bleed the animal, but small amounts of blood remained in the carcass. They could eat that, as long as they did the bleeding process. At what point did they decide that the animal had been bleed sufucuantly? They were not told that, just poor out the blood. That was the law - to pur out the blood. Every one doing so would have to decide at what point the blood was poured out.... did they stop as soon as the blood stopped running, or did they wait until no more dripps fell on the ground... did they then flush out the vanes with water... how far should they have gone? So they had to decide when to stop, and fro each individual that would be a different time.

  As far as transplants are concerned I personaly do not see the WTS forbidding it. They pointed out Bible principles and left up to the individual to decide. If others read into thier comments that it was forbidden, I suggest that it was either their consciernce agreeing with the Bible principles presented or they did not read the article clearlyand carefully enough. I will stick by my conclution that it was up to the individual.

  I am preparing an essay to post under "freinds" to discuss what I see as the erronous view that the WTS controlls JWs thinking, so keep an out out for it.