I gather that most on this forum would agree that Jehovah's witneeses do not have the truth they cliam to have.
But to what degree do we inform friends and relatives who are still belivers of this.
For many (assuming they come to the same conclution) it would come as a relief , but for others could it do more harm than good?
For instance an elder in my hall recently died from cancer which he had suffered from for about a year.
What kept him going and happy through pain and suffering was the belief that he was in the true religion favored by god and would recieve a resurection.
Imagine the heart break he would had suffered if people had convinced him that the society was a sham.
Imagine others say like my parents who are in their 50's and have no pension who look forward to the future paradise.
Would it be right for me to covince them that thier dreams for for future are all flawed.
I am still in my 20's and i'm not the type to get depreesed and all that, but i have to admit to being gutted when the truth dawned on me that all my hopeds and beliefs were likely wrong.
But can we be certain to such an absolute degree that all that witnesses belive is false?
Do we really have the right to preach with coviction to others that they are wrong, just like we preached when we belived?
To what extent should we inform people of the mistakes and bad reasoning in the watchtower society?
Should our goal be to get people out or to inform them, or prehaps to force a change to the society?
Is it right to get people out of the org?
by sleepy 19 Replies latest jw friends
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sleepy
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HoChiMin
Sleepy;
> But can we be certain to such an absolute degree that all that witnesses belive is false?:
Most of it is. It may not be a definite true false question. People die and live horrible lives because of what the WT says.
> Do we really have the right to preach with coviction to others that they are wrong, just like we preached when we belived?:
Yes we have the right to if so inclined. Just like they have the right to spread their information.
> To what extent should we inform people of the mistakes and bad reasoning in the watchtower society? :
Any time the subject comes up and the person listening is not in a zombie like state.
>Should our goal be to get people out or to inform them, or prehaps to force a change to the society?:
Yes if they will listen.
HCM
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BoozeRunner
Hi Sleepy,
I believe that providing information about the WTS and letting people make their own decision is the way to go.
Who knows if the WTS will EVER change significantly. Perhaps if they are hit hard enough in the pocketbook. The R&F are a major source of $$. Even this may not be enough.
Since you made the statement about your parents having no pension, let me ask you this:
Suppose your parents had invested their life savings in a company which you found out was defrauding folks out of their $$. Would you not bring this to their attention so they could get their $$ out, reinvest in a reputable company, and therefore have some financial freedom in their GOLDEN YEARS?
Likewise, millions have invested their lives in the WTS whose so-called "TRUTH" is just the opposite. They are being defrauded of their lives by being brainwashed into nothing more than drones.
Freedom only comes with the ability to look at the facts, and make an informed decision.Boozy
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Farkel
Boozerunner,
Good observations!
Sleepy,
: Imagine the heart break he would had suffered if people had convinced him that the society was a sham.
Imagine the heartbreak millions suffered when the society told them in 1995 after 60 years of lying about it that "this generation" is gonna a last a hell of a long time.
To encourage by silence the perpetration of the lie is to promote the lie.
Does Jehovah want people to wink at lies? Does Christ?
Farkel
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JT
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=7798&site=3#92744
Sleepy you have asked some very good questions:
1. But can we be certain to such an absolute degree that all that witnesses belive is false?
######personally i think that i can speak for most here that very few of us feel that "ALL" of what jw believe is false- the problem is the wt forces you to accept ALL of thier teachings as if they are supported by the bible and time and time again it has been proven beyond a doubt that wt like other religions gets some things right and gets somethings wrong- but like many others you must pretend that the KING HAS ON CLOTHES
2. Do we really have the right to preach with coviction to others that they are wrong, just like we preached when we belived?
#####I don't consider telling someone that the Timeshare they are about to buy from WT is being sold to everyone who walks thru the door is for WEEK 53 as preaching
3.To what extent should we inform people of the mistakes and bad reasoning in the watchtower society?
To the extent that they "ONLY WANT TO KNOW" very few of us here would go down to the hall and stand out front, but if a jw knocks on my door or on my job, etc starts to offer "Week 53 Times Shares" - then in my view it time.
i provided link to a thread that deals with how you can't force folks to beleive something just because you show them HARD FACTS
IT GOES MUCH DEEPER THAN showing someone a few flip flops- as you pointed out each person life in wt has been colored by thier age and exp and i agree with you 100% there are some who should never know - they could not handle it-
but the fact of the matter is - if most jw had the chance to see all the cards on the table before they became a jw they would have never become a jw
and if most jw could openly and freely discuss the stuff we deal with here alot of them would leave for it would CONFIRM what they have felt or wondered about for yrs , but was never able to talk about
in my view the key is CONFIRMATION - there are so many jw whjo have doubts and questions , but due to the WT structure of NO QUESTION AND IF SO YOU DON'T LOVE GOD MINDSET most jw push doubts into the back of thier minds- and the fear of telling anyone even wife or husband is so great that even husbands and wives are in fear of each other turning them in.
4.Should our goal be to get people out or to inform them, or prehaps to force a change to the society?
###### NO --it should only be to provide THEM with the tools , resouurces and support that they will need if they WANT TO KNOW
as for changing the Society -THE question must be - change it into WHAT- it currently holds the status of God's Mouth Pc
what would they want to become after holding such a high position- SMILE
JUST MY THOUGHTS and welcome to the board enjoyed your thought provoking post
james
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jst2laws
Hello Sleepy
You have some valid points. However, conscience will likely force all of us to do something with what we know. The question may be what do we do with this information, and what is our goal.
As to What we do with this information, I believe we have an obligation to share it. Just like a child playing in the street needs to be educated about cars, we have to help these friends and relatives you mentioned. But this fact must be weighed against the reality that sometimes the truth itself causes harm.
How you share the facts will have something to do with it, but likely people you love will come to hate you. Then some you reach will go through the inevitable depression.My eighty year old mother has cancer. Last visit she read part of Karl Olof Johnsson’s work. She put it away saying she felt “safe with the society”. She was afraid, at this point in her life to risk her security. I am compelled to leave her with that.
As to What is our purpose? Hopefully we are motivated by love. I fear that even people who love sometimes get obsessed with the importance of their own beliefs. The desire to convincing others we are right about our convictions I feel is a motive that can be harmful. Crusading with “the Truth” is what we are fleeing from. This needs to be balanced with intuitive concern for the persons needs.
So Sleepy, should we try to "get people out of the org"? We should try to keep innocent children out of a busy street. But here we are ussually dealing with adults. Perhaps getting them educated is our only obligation, leaving 'getting out' to them. I think your caution is warranted, but surely we can not justify silence.
Jst2laws
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TweetieBird
Sleepy, I agree that for some it would be worse to find out about "the Truth." Take my mom, for instance, she is 78 years old, has dedicated more than 50 years to the org, at this point in her life, starting over is not really an option. It would put her on her death bed for sure. That is why I still pretend to be in the org, for her sake. I know she won't be around that much longer as her health is steadily decreasing, therefore, I don't want to hurt her, so I keep up the charade.
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DannyBear
Sleepy,
If the WTBS would stop the henious crime of disfellowshiping, and allow member's to exercise their 'god given' freedom of conscience, there would be no need to try and get anyone out. imo.
Everyone looks for comfort, hope, sense of spirituality, from different sources, money, religion, family, friends. But when the WTBS enforces their draconian 'cultish' policies, that tear families apart, push individuals to thoughts of suicide, instill fear of men, the way this org. does, they deserve no quarter. Only derision, just like any other cult, that sujects its members to abuse.
Danny
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Amazing
Hi Sleepy: I once met a Rabbi and a Priest in the same room. My then fiance' and I were just studying with the Witnesses. Having the resurrection hope in mind, I asked the Rabbi what he tells people when they are dying.
The Rabbi said, "I tell them anything I think they want to hear, and if that means I lie to them, then I lie to them." He tied this in somewhat with the part in Proverbs about giving a dying person wine to calm their spirit.
I think that a JW about to die does not need to be enlightened by ex-JWs. I help people coming out, and if I can be helpful in getting them information while they are still JWs, then I will. But I don't make a religion out of converting JWs into ex-JWs. - Amazing
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jschwehm
hi Sleepy-
I would answer that it is a good thing to assist individuals who wish to leave the WT organization. It is difficult to help people who do not want help. I think it is important to share information with individuals who will listen.
In addition, one of the best things to do is to speak to individuals *before* they get involved in destructive groups like the JWs. My wife and I speak to youth groups and others about the dangers of cults and hopefully our warnings about how cults work will help them to make informed decisions whenever they are in a situation where a cult recruiter comes calling.
Jeff S.