Is it right to get people out of the org?

by sleepy 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • Lindy
    Lindy

    That is a good question. I was on my way to exiting the Organization, but didn't realize it, when my mother got cancer. I had been in this WTBTS almost 40 years at the time. My mother came in as a disillusioned Catholic dragging her young children with her. So to her this was the "Truth". She lived it many, many years and gave her all to it. I always had doubts, just didn't realize it growing up and in my adulthood that those doubts weren't weaknesses, as the Elders told me. I stayed, always under pressure somehow to do so. My brother was DF and I was the only child in. My Dad never came in. I lived a miserable life as a JW. Things were never right for me. But I dragged on. How I wish someone had come to me years earlier and told me the facts. I thought my doubts were my own fault and I was the one lacking. That is the way the Society keeps people in, by making it the individual's fault, not theirs.
    But, by the time my Mom was ill with cancer, I was so inactive that I didn't get to meetings on a regular basis and I didn't go out in service at all. But I hung on because of my Mom. I didn't share negative things with her. She needed her faith at the end and what would have been the point to distract her from it then? Even if I knew what I know now, I wouldn't have done that to her. In my eyes, that would have been cruel. She would probably kept her faith and died knowing that I would probably not be in that "New System" of hers when she arrived. What good would that have done?
    But as far as someone younger, there is hope. At 52, young man, I have just started college. I was on the dean's list last semester and plan to go on and graduate. The government is planning on moving retirement age into the 70's before I get to the age they subscribe now. So I figure that I have lots of time to get a degree and work a few years and set myself up. I also am setting an example for my daughters who are 19 and 22 and my son who is 33 and my granddaughter who is 9. It is never to late to better yourself.
    As far as retirement, your parents can go on thinking that the new system will rescue them from it, or they can go on and hit the reality that they have nothing when they arrive at old age, still here in this "Old System" with no way to live decently. Is it better to know that they have to make some big changes in their 50's, or is it better for them to see it when they are in their late 70's and 80's and realize that they should have planned for their old age? The Society will not be handing out monies to them because they predicted that the end will come "soon" and that they should "wait on Jehovah" and depend on "Him" to take care of their needs. Jehovah isn't handing things out to the old ones who now need it and thought the end was "nigh" years and years ago, are they. No, they claim it is these old ones own fault for "placing a date on the end" and not preparing for their old age. The Society claims no responsibility for these old ones who gave up everything for them.
    If you think that your parents might listen, test them out here and there and see. They are really young enough to face the facts and young enough to make some changes yet to make their future a better one, emotionally and financially.
    If you don't get them to see the facts, then you had better get yourself a degree and get into a financial position where you will be able to help to take care of them. You are very young and able to get into that position and if you love them and don't want them in poverty you might want to consider this advice.
    You are young and you don't have life’s experience yet. Your parents, even as JWs have learned a lot, don't discount that. Exiting the Watchtower would not necessarily be as big a hardship emotionally on them as you might think. It just depends. I had a hard time, but not as hard as some. It all depends on the support you get and how strong you are emotionally. I learned so much on-line. These boards meant a whole lot to me. Anytime I felt that I might go back to the Hall, I recalled all the things I learned. It takes time and it will take time for your parents too, if they choose to leave. But they will have your support and you would have theirs. Finding out the facts about the Society is a paradigm shift for most who have given it their all. But the mind is a great thing and can handle it.

    Remember too, that telling any JW anything bad about the Society is a red flag for them to think you might be "apostate". You don't say if you are still in or baptized. You didn't say how strong a JW your parents are, how ingrained they might be. You are risking your standing in the congregation if you are still in, and could be DF if you insist on talking about your thought that are contrary to the Societies teachings.
    You also need to do more research, your comment on not knowing that all that the JW's believe is false and whether reform would be good or not. You need to learn more so that you can answer these things in your own heart. It takes time and research but the facts are there for the taking.
    But you are thinking and that is good. I came on my first board in defense of the JW's, and I can't be more grateful for the patience of the ones who taught me over the years. So keep moving forward. Keep asking questions and follow the brain and heart that was given you and live a good life with no serious doubts in your soul. It can happen.

    Lindy

  • Sam Beli
    Sam Beli

    Farkel said: “To encourage by silence the perpetration of the lie is to promote the lie”

    Sometimes one has to stay quiet as I will explain.

    Sleepy raises an important question that does not have a simple answer in every situation. For example, in the case of my young adult children, hell yes I have preached to them about the errors in teaching of the WTS. It is not easy for them since they have families of their own now who are “in-the-truth.” I made a special trip to the other side of the country to talk to them about these issues after I had made sure in my own mind that the “truth” was not the truth.

    In the case of my aged parents, it is another story. They retired a long time ago – too late to save properly for retirement, but they are getting by. My dad held out about the “this century” comments to the very end. When the news media referred to the end of the century at the start of 2000 he was quick to point out that the new century did not really begin till the year 2001 since there was no zero year. I think he really thought that the end would come as predicted before the start of 2001. He doesn’t say much now, but his zest for life is all tied up in the WTS and its “truth.”

    I have dribbled some hints to him, some real truth about the truth. He bristles and comes up with the usual excuses. Later he tells me to be very careful with my computer. He says that the apostate information is poison. So, I let it go. I never bring up the subject anymore. He goes to all of the meetings and zealously participates in all of the usual JW activities. He is a real “Society Man.” It would kill him to admit, even to himself privately, that it was not the truth. He has lead the way in the sacrifices that he and my mother have made. They have too much invested. Their personal spirit would be crushed to walk away now. So, I let it go. Trouble is, now every time I see him he wants to give me a little lecture about “not forsaking the Kingdom Hall.” Makes me want to hit him, but he is my dad, so I take it, smile, shake my head as if in agreement, and try to get out of there as soon as possible.

    Sometimes I just have to keep my mouth shut (wish I’d never opened it to my dad, I’ll pay for that the rest of his life).

    Regards,

    Sam Beli

  • chester
    chester

    Sleepy,

    If I had acess to the information that is available to me now I would never have come into this organization.

    Back when I came in, Ray Franz's book C of C was already written but I just found out about it within the past year. (my stupidity) I should have done my research. But back then access to this information was not available like it is today. (no internet)

    This information was kept from me along with a lot of other things. Was it right for all of the facts to have been kept from me?

    so I ask you, "Is it right to get people out of the organization?"

    I agree that for some it would be too tramatic but I feel that we should try to make the information that we have available to them and let them do their own research and make their own decision.

    I know I am glad that I was able to find out "the truth about the truth."

    I totally agree with what DannyBear said

    But when the WTBS enforces their draconian 'cultish' policies, that tear families apart, push individuals to thoughts of suicide, instill fear of men, the way this org. does, they deserve no quarter. Only derision, just like any other cult, that sujects its members to abuse.
    "

    Our goal should be to inform them. Let them make their own decision as to whether or not they want to leave.

    When it comes to ones we know who are interested in coming in we should be especially diligent in making information available to them
    so that they have the facts "just the facts, Mam", as Joe Friday would have said.

    Chester

  • BoozeRunner
    BoozeRunner

    Hi again,
    In all these comments, no one is saying to leave or give up their belief in GOD. The whole point is, whether or not to disclose info about a religious fraud.
    I do believe it is a harder decison to provide such info to elderly ones in the Org, tho. Altho I didnt have the enlightment about the WTS when I was first DF'd as I do now, I knew I wasnt going back. But the last my Dad told my mom as he lay dying of cancer was that he wished he could live long enough to see me reinstated. That broke my heart. Naturally, if I'd had the info I have now, it would have served no purpose to disclose it to him.

    Boozy

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Auntie,

    You said;

    ****The Society will not be handing out monies to them because they predicted that the end will come "soon" and that they should "wait on Jehovah" and depend on "Him" to take care of their needs. Jehovah isn't handing things out to the old ones who now need it and thought the end was "nigh" years and years ago, are they. No, they claim it is these old ones own fault for "placing a date on the end" and not preparing for their old age. The Society claims no responsibility for these old ones who gave up everything for them.****

    You have stated an undeniable fact! Even the most die hard jw appologist cannot deny this. Just for this reason alone, it is advisable to ignore, all of their posturing on 'higher education'. Could it be that that is exactly why we see many young jw's now enrolling in college?

    The GB if really concerned over the welfare of their flock, should unreservedly encourage jw's to do just that...plan for the future.
    Instead they still to this day, continue to impose guilt and anxiety on any member, who chooses to act in accord with the facts. Shame on them. Shame on the membership for allowing men to dictate their life's course, no fear of God involved here at all.

    As always Auntie, your experience and example set the way.

    Danny

  • JUSTAMOM
    JUSTAMOM

    Hello and that is a loving way to look at it.

    For my husband and I since ALL our family are still inside as we were raised from birth inside...
    yes of course you want your loved ones to see what you see and feel freedom from slavery. Who wouldn't. But....

    we pray for any open door and seed that we may be used to plant.
    Yes, it is UP TO THEM whether they choose to see or not. Fear and NO WHERE TO GO they feel is the bondage.

    There is NO where, but WHO we have found.
    Unless they want to see, they remain blind, yes.

    But on the other side of the coin while we continue to let our love flow ANYTIME we can, we MUST let OUR lights shine.
    The commission to His true discipkes has not changed even though we are on the outside.

    A warning according EZEKIEL 3:3- was given through the spirit to us as far as our cong and family goes. And NO I do not want anymore blood on my shoulders than need be. If any...

    Also in ROMANS 10:10 "For with the heart one excercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation."

    ROMANS 10:11-15 "How will they hear etc..." How will they call upon him...."etc..... unless someone was sent forth?"

    That is our PERSONAL responsibility. That is not what we are saying everyone HAS to do.
    But if I knew or didn't realize that one of my family members knew what I know about 'them'(the org) and didn't EVEN try to warn or help me, I would question their true love for me as a christian.

    I received free, I must GIVE free!

    JUST A MOM (Kim)

  • Lindy
    Lindy

    Hi Danny,
    Thanks for the kind words.
    Maybe that is the reason the WTBTS is saying that it is okay to get educated, so they can say they gave them the choice. But in the next breath, outside of the literature they discourage such an education at the Hall, through the elders, and at the conventions. They say one thing and actually do another. Education to them is like poisoning themselves. The only time they want it is to cover their legal butts. But they don't want all the average rank and file JWs getting an education. With only one semester of college my eyes saw everything differently. It was amazing to me. If all JWs saw a tenth of what I did and felt they would be mass exiting or at least have strong thoughts of doing so. So, in print the Society is saying one thing to please the outsiders, but in reality where it counts, they are still stifling the flock, chaining the gates to the corral shut.
    Like you said, it is posturing, not a fact. And of course, for their benefit only.

    Auntie

  • Billygoat
    Billygoat

    I agree - you can only help those that want to be helped. I believe that when the timing is right for those ready to hear the NON-Truth being exposed I'll be ready.

    Besides...I guess I've had enough Watchtower "thumping" during my pioneer years that it makes me a little scared to be evangelical about how false their teachings are! I don't want to turn around and be doing the same thing that I hated back then.

    Billygoat

  • gsark
    gsark

    I have to agree with the many posters here, that we only have so many resources as individuals, we have to decide where we wnat to use them.

    For me prevention is the best way to go, talk to everyone you know who will let you about the 7 (min) failed prophecies and whatever else. They will tell people, who will then tell people, and hopefully catch a newbie before too late. For example, I told my friend about ex-jw things I knew; she told a coworker, who then was visited by JW's at her door and boy was she ready. BAM...another close call.

    As for those already in, I think an individually tailored approach is best. It should be different for young ones as older ones, and different for new ones as opposed to 'lifers' and different for 1st generation as opposed to 3rd generation. I make it a point to get to know a JW before saying anything to them. And that includes the chatroom.

    Well, at least we all care, or we wouldn't be here , right!

    Life is a roller coaster. Get in, sit down, shut up and hang on!

  • alamb
    alamb

    I personally am eternally grateful that someone went out on a limb to talk to me. After the first 5 minutes, 35 years of beliefs melted away and I was able to see beyond the lies. The puzzle finally fit.

    I was bashing myself endlessly and hopelessly trying to make everything work and just needed someone to "pull me out of the snowdrift" kicking and screaming all the way.

    I now feel an overwhelming commitment to my family still in the Borg and I will not stop until the last one is out. I hope they would do the same for me.

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