Paradox: Are Faithless Watchtower Leaders Reform's Best Hope?

by metatron 17 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  willyloman

  I'm sure I'm not the only dub who was attracted to the JWs in the 70's because they seemed to be seriously and intellectually interested in understanding the bible and its prophecies. The subsequent dumbing down, coupled with the realization that the entire organization is systemically flawed, has chased many of us away.

  The WTS seems hell bent on insulting the intelligence of any of its members who have any (intelligence, that is). The mind-numbing book-study materials on Daniel and Isaiah come to mind, as does the "new, improved" Theocratic Ministry School. These are just a few of the examples, aside from those already cited, and there are many more.

  Combine this sloppy scholarship with the clear lack of genuine love within the organization, along with rampant judgmentalism, punitive prejudice, and the hurts-to-watch gullibility of the average dub, and you've got a recipe for doom.
• 

  metatron

  I wish doom was the inevitable outcome as Witness zombies drift away but I'm not sure about that happening

  anytime soon. This religion isn't about logic or love - it's about obsessive-compulsive behavior disguised as worship.

  You 'haveto' go to meetings, you gotta get your time in, they may as well just have publishers count cracks in the

  sidewalk. I'm more hopeful about the leaderships' lack of faith and interest creating doom rather than the determination of the drones

  and thralls to drag themselves along in the "truth".

  metatron
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  No Apologies

  It's my understanding that Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation are no longer connected. I think getting those two confused is why some people have so much trouble dealing with either of them.

  Gary, are you channeling XQs now? That sounds like something he would come up with. The fact of the matter is that the people running the Publishing Corporation and running the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses all report to Patterson.

  Ex Witnesses most often confuse the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation(s) and Jehovah's Witnesses but few Witnesses of the loyal type confuse the two.

  Can you explain what you mean by this?

  No Apologies
• 

  proplog2

  The funny thing about that scripture is that the Apostle John believed the rumor that circulated that Jesus was really saying he wouldn't die and that he would be alive at rapture time.

  That's why at the end of John's life he felt the end was very near. (John 2:18) John even does his own twisted explanation of the anti-christ. The tradition among the early christians is that a single individual would appear who would persecute the holy ones. There was no such individual at Johns time so he tried to say that there were "many anti-christs". He defines anti-christs as those who leave the Christian Congregation John 2:19 "They went out from us". This is completely in contradiction to Jesus' parable to search out the sheep that stray and bring them back into the fold. John was way off base. He wrongfully concluded that if people left the congregation they were "anti-Christ". If those who left are anti-christ there is no reason to try to pursue them. So John would feel quite comfortable in the JW organization today.
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  ezekiel3

  Gary: Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe what the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation prints, the Witnesses I know don't even know what the publishing company prints. To think they do is a delusion.

  The active JWs do indeed know what the WTS prints and hangs on every word. I'm not quite sure of your impression, but this is definitely not the norm among the R&F.

  True the gruel being released today is ho-hum, even the zealots are scratching theh bottom to find something interesting.

  However, more and more the FDS is getting more mention than Jesus in the prayers and talks, "how thankful we are for.." "What a blessing we have..." etc.

  Inside the bubble the 'Publishing Corporation' is a alive and well.
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  garybuss

  No Apologies, I wish I could channel with XQ. I believe it would be fun. Sharp guy!
  
  Early on I had Witnesses confused with the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation. I asked them to explain passages in Watch Tower mass produced religious literature but they had nothing to do with it's writing, it's editing, it's printing. it's delivery, it's cost recovery, it's distribution, or it's credibility, and furthermore they had never read the passage I was referring to. This happened over and over.
  
  I gave them no choice but to reject me because I was confronting them on the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation level, a level they feel obligated to defend, but they are not informed or prepared to defend it. They are trained that they must deal with every situation and win and this perceived attack against the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation is something they can not win, so to save their ego and to feel like they won, they have to reject me. This happened over and over too, predictably. I was taking them down a dead end street with no choice but to reject me. I was setting them up.
  
  I am not referring to the Witness people on a corporation level here (although that level is separate as well). I have not seen any correspondence to the Witness people from the printing corporation(s) since 2000. I believe the corporation firewall is in place and functioning as planned.
  
  I am referring to the functional difference and I am referring to the Witness people on a personal level. I think a lot of the accountability and the Theocratic pyramid of power is a Watch Tower Corporation dogma but I think it's an idea not really very widely accepted by the Witness people. If I asked a Witness who their head is, they would answer Jesus or Jehovah, not the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation or now, the Christian Congregations Of Jehovah's Witnesses.
  
  I finally realized I was discussing the wrong topic with the wrong person. Maybe I could have written religious type rather than the loyal type. I'll think about that more.
  
  My point is . . . an unfriendly confrontation with a Witness person on any level, if my experience is any indication, will result in loss of rapport. I don't think it's reasonable for me to expect the Witness people to answer for the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation.
  
  Please don't think I am going all soft and mushy on the elders of the Lance Roberts type. A type that ordered stalkers to follow me and watch my house. I am not. And I would go out of my way to lose rapport with elders of that type. I don't want rapport with them.
  
  I think questions to the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation should be directed to them by way of the media such as the local newspapers and TV, as well as by advertised public forums.
  
  I might be all wet on all of this. I have a rather long and prolific history of being wrong. I certainly am a student in search of a sage.
  
  
  
  
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  abbagail

  "This religion isn't about logic or love - it's about obsessive-compulsive behavior DISGUISED AS worship."
  
  
  
  
  (and, btw, I was exactly just such a JW.)
  
  /ag
• 

  garybuss

  ezekiel3 wrote: The active JWs do indeed know what the WTS prints and hangs on every word.

  I have no idea of the Witness masses belives and practices. I just know the Witness people I know personally and those I correspond with. I was not aware that more than a few of the Witness people did not read the publications and they did not understand or even know Watch Tower Publishing Corporation printed material until I read the work and listened to the tapes of Bill Centnar. I found his work to be right on.
  
  My wife didn't know the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation printed that Jesus wasn't her mediator. She pioneered for 7 years. My wife's father is a hard core Witness but he openly celebrates birthdays and has told me he does not agree with the blood medical treatment guidelines printed by Watch Tower Publishing Corporation.
  
  No Witnesses I have talked with personally, knew Watch Tower Publishing Corporation printed that Adam and Eve were created in the same year. Most Witnesses I have talked with personally did not know Watch Tower Publishing Corporation allows whole blood transfusions as long as the blood is their own, is run through a cell saver scavenger devise, and the transfusion is called a reinfusion. They didn't even know the Witnesses have donated such machines to hospitals.
  
  The Witnesses I know have a facade of Watch Tower Publishing Corporation knowledge but they do not have it. I have met people like Jim Penton and Ron Frye who do have knowledge but I have never met a Witness who, (1.) Has knowledge of material printed by Watch Tower Publishing Corporation, or (2.) Believes and practices all they are aware of printed by the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation.
  
  That lack of belief has been well demonstrated in the 1975 threads. After the fact, most Witnesses admit they did not believe the information presented at gatherings and published by Watch Tower Publishing Corporation. That has not changed.
  
  I doubt very much the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation feels healthy or secure judging by the amount of control they are using on the Witness people now, and judging by how often the masses are warned about apostates and critical material. It seems like they are reduced to rather drastic measures of both cost control and people control now.
  
  I may be wrong. I have a rather long and prolific history of being wrong.