I debated with my "devout" JW mom and her JW elders for 5 hours (page 4)

stevenyc

Jeff S. said

How would you like being a nurse delivering a baby from a Doctor that takes as many missteps as the Society.
Nurse: What do I do? Doctor: Well right now in during this time of present truth in a few minutes the stork will arrive and... Doctor: Hold on..Sorry that was past truth... etc.

This is the reason.

THE NURSE THOUGHT SHE WAS SPEAKING TO A DOCTOR!!!

Your mom and elders think their speaking to Gods Org.
If the nurse asked what to do and the reply was, "get her to stand on her head and push"
the nurse would see it didn't work and start thinking
if the next reply was then, "get her to lay on her belly and pretend to be a fish"
The nurse would now have suspisions that it wasn't the doctor on the phone.

Steve.

BluesBrother

Hi booker-t (is that from Booker T and the MG's?) Sorry to hear of your trial . If you think about it you were really onto a hiding-to-nothing , facing the elders and your Mum in the K Hall, I salute your courage. By now you may have thought back over what might have been said differently, but that is natural and inevitable. The result? Did they convince you to return to the Org? or even reconsider one little bit? No - so they failed. I am sorry for the outcome with your Mum. I hope she comes around. Did they institute proceedings for a Judicial Comittee to hear your case of Apostasy? What ever , good luck and keep posting.....

lonelysheep

I'm sorry you're going through this w/your mom.

"3 Pay attention to yourselves. If your brother commits a sin give him a rebuke, and if he repents forgive him. 4 Even if he sins seven times a day against you and he comes back to you seven times, saying, ?I repent,? you must forgive him.?"

Now, that plainly says that we are to forgive your brother if he sins and repents. It does not say that we are not to forgive him if he doesn't repent. Other scripture like the following tells us that WE MUST FORGIVE THOSE WHO SIN AGAINST US... Without any mention of repentance...

The thing that pisses me off is the fact that they've got everyone brainwashed to believe that the wt can dictate what is an evil sin in the first place!!! Like "sinning against the holy spirit" is equal to committing a sin against them. This goes far beyond what any bible says. They don't want to believe it, though. So your mom is hooked onto them and feels she has the right to view you as such.

Write to them using the info provided by elsewhere and others.

AlmostAtheist

Sorry you went through all that, and the sad ending. You really can't debate someone out of the org. It's like a door locked from the inside. No matter how hard you bang, they won't come out until they unlock it themselves.

I did the same thing with my father-in-law on a much tighter, more easily defined issue. (Birthdays) Got the same result as you.

Dave

NeonMadman

If the WTS is a prophet, then its record amply demonstrates that it is a false prophet.

If it merely "acts as a prophet" (whatever that means), then we must reasonably conclude from its record that it acts as a false prophet, not as a prophet of God.

Furthermore, if the organization merely "acts as a prophet" and is not actually a prophet, then it has no claim to the authority it assumes as one who actually professes to speak for God. If all it is offering is its own human opinions, then it has no right to expect those opinions to be received as anything other than what they are - fallible human ideas with no more authority behind them than anyone else's opinions.

stevenyc

Also,

Check out Quote's site here:

http://quotes.watchtower.ca/prophet.htm

A lot of the jw defence is mearly semantics. If it gets tough you could try qualifying what the definition of prophet is. They admit that the GB inturprets words and "signs" to predict the future. They have stated future events with dates. There are NO dates in the bible. 1914 is nowhere.

Ask them if bible charactors who interpreted dreams were prophets. The bible is inspired by Jehovah, but those dreams were inspired by Jehovah as well. It's the same thing. So, if those dream interpreters were prophets by using the holy spirit to interpret dreams to predict the future, the same can apply to the GB by using the holy spirit to interpret Jehovah's words to predict the future. Remember, the number 1914 is nowhere in the bible.

This is very different to say a stock broker or sports commentator predicting the future. They use form and intuition to make an assumption. The GB doesn't make assumptions . So, if its not assumptions to say what IS going to happen in the future ESSPECIALY when siting dates, it sound to me like prophecing.

However, if you end up getting a juditial commitee, you will not win. You will be given two choices. The same two choices religions have been giving for hundreds of years. Repent of your sins and accept the church or die (spiritually die and familly communications die) . If you want to stay in good communication with your mom you'll probably have to back down.

I posting this to let you know that I believe your argument to be correct, and strong. You are right. There is a bigger picture than argument with this sect, and that's your relationship with your mom. And for that I do not envy your position. Many of us on this board have been through similar situations.

Please keep us updated on your progress, and ask for help here whenever you need it.

Keep strong.

Steve.

The Leological One

originally by Buster:

"My dad, an excellent salesman, used to say, "If you can't dazzle 'em with brillinace, baffle 'em with bullsh!t." It sounds like they gave you quite the runaround."

Hey; I'll use that in my "sig" for my moniker at the harmony-central.com musician's forums~!

The Leological One

Originally by NeoMadman:

If the WTS is a prophet, then its record amply demonstrates that it is a false prophet.
If it merely "acts as a prophet" (whatever that means), then we must reasonably conclude from its record that it acts as a false prophet, not as a prophet of God.
Furthermore, if the organization merely "acts as a prophet" and is not actually a prophet, then it has no claim to the authority it assumes as one who actually professes to speak for God. If all it is offering is its own human opinions, then it has no right to expect those opinions to be received as anything other than what they are - fallible human ideas with no more authority behind them than anyone else's opinions.

+ 1 or more Kabillion~! Wish you coulda' had a more even scenario; that whole setup was lame to begin with, and it's strange to think your mother and those elders don't reflect at some point afterwards wondering, "Was that not diarreah that just came outta' my mouth~?!"

Quotes

================
as I was leaving one of the elders said that I am the evil slave apostate and my mom is serving Jehovah and Jesus and she should cut me off completely
================

This elder reminds me of a petulant child. If you say you don't want to play their game, and want to play a different game, but they are not done playing the 1st game, the petulant child says "YOU ARE A BIG POO-POO HEAD, WE"RE NOT GOING TO BE YOUR FRIEND".

They call themselves "elders" but they should be called "children".

~Quotes.

Jaypeeto

Booker-T, you certainly did the right thing, and I can feel your pain. It's sad to lose your mother, but what can you do when she prefers the company of diabolical liars like the Jehovah's Witnesses? God be with you, along with His peace. Love, Jaypeeto

I debated with my "devout" JW mom and her JW elders for 5 hours

Share this