annulment of baptism (page 3)

bavman

a.a. wrote:

In other words, all baptisms are valid.

yeah, that's pretty much always been my take on this as well. i really don't care what the society is saying here though i'm only interested in laws.

to a.a. and franklin j:

i already da'd myself last june. i couldn't care less about the watchtower rules. i am only interested in "caesar's rules". the reason i am interested in this is that perhaps if somehow i could get this annulled maybe it would be a small window that my parents would use to have it be alright to talk with me. maybe it wouldn't matter to them but maybe it would. also, i have a 9 yr old son who is still in dubdom with his mother most of the time. i would like to know all the chips i may have to play. on top of that why not get this info out there for people. and finally, i really believe it is anal that a law isn't there to protect children who grow up in this kind of cult. i agree with g money's assesment of what is probably the law in this case. but it is wrong! it is similar to the child sex abuse laws. it takes a person years to understand what they have gotten themselves into. there should be a change in these laws! i suppose my best bet is to see a lawyer about these questions and eventually i will see one when i get the money.

bav

moshe

I wrote to the society in 1988 and told them I was annulling my membership due to fraud on their part- my contract with them was null and void. The local elders finally did Df, but I was too busy to deal with them on a legal basis. I still stand by my original arguement.- Had they represented their past history and teachings openly and I would never have become a JW. A Judge can void a contract if it is proven to have been obtained by means of fraud.

shalom,

Moshe

orangefatcat

On a previous thread I mentioned that my aunt and one of our friends both had their baptizms annuled. Years later they both were re-baptized. They had both felt they didn't know what was required of them at such and early age.

Ofc.

bavman

that reminds me of when i was baptized. there was a man there asking me if i had ever been baptized before. i asked someone about this later and he gave me a story similar to what you just mentioned. hmmmmm.....

peacefulpete

Greg, there is no legal means to do this. I talked at length with a couple lawyers who had never heard of any successful suit to prevent a church from exercizing it's authority within the church. Slander or defamation charges are only possible if the church leaders abused church policies and caused tangible harm (usually financial).

My mother was also rebaptised under the provision they made arounf 1958. This was done for leagal reasons as the new use of disfellowshipping from that time involved messy legal problems. The provision was a one time thing and for a very limited time. The new converts ere baptised after a session of questions and informed of the disfellowshipping threat. Those that acceeded to the new policies but did not feel the need to get rebaptised had less foundation for future suits if they later were df'd.

I am certain of one thing however that if a person wanting out told the elders he was secretly smoking (or whatever) when he got baptised and this was nagging their conscience ever since. THEY SHOULD ANNULL THE BAPTISM and have no grounds to df. If they feel they can just dismiss it, insist that you feel your baptism was invalid. They can not argue with you. I wish I had thought of that before.

Age does not really bear on anything. The church politics are not dictated by the legal age issues. There are those here that claim to have aggressively pursued this and won. But when pressed they reveal that an announcement was made anyway that claimed they DA'd themselves or a generic bad association warning that everyone recognized the person being labeled.

fri

Once my wife and I decided to come out due to a case of abuse that was covered up to nearly 3 years, we made up our minds and wrote letters to the society and local kingdom hall as well as many member of my congregation and let them know what was going on. We could not just live the rest of our lives in fear of being disfellowshipped for some insignificant thing that the witnesses call world. I wanted out and I wanted it fast. Hell I was even ashamed as being recognized as a witness. When it comes to baptism, I was born a catholic and was baptized at the age of 2. I became a witness and got baptized at the age of 23. Now I ask you guys which baptism will count? First or second? Hell, if it is the second one, I will through myself in my pool and ask my wife to baptize me in the name of my DOG so that the second doesn?t count. Any suggestions you guys might have???

sassafrass

I am truly puzzled here. What does being baptized legally bind you to? What power does it give them over you? I never of baptism as a legal wriiten contract, only as a pact or promise made between an individual and GOD. Only you can decide wether or not you were mature enough to uphold such an obligation. How do you feel now? Even if there is an annullment, your congregation has always known you as a baptised witness, if you are sudenly unbaptised won't they call you on your convictions and pressure you to reenact the ceremony? If you want things to remain the same why are you worried about an annullment? If you are feeling differently it may be time to stop worrying about what others think. I am sure Jehovah is already aware of your feelings and he is the only party to whom any restitution would be due.

peacefulpete

The bitter damage to families can in some cases be averted if the WT leaves a person alone without aggressively pursuing for reason of DFing. In my case some began shunning as soon as I stopped going to the KH others waited until they were told they had to because they df'd us for disbelief. If I could have quietly left both my family and I would have been saved a great deal of unnecessary pain. Even if a person has no desire to be a part of the WT syndicate anymore they likely want to keep their family.

bavman

will,

thanks for chiming in on the legal issues. i was kinda hoping you would. i knew this was a long shot since i never heard of such a thing in my 32 years involvement with the dubbies. when it comes right down to it the laws don't really matter anyway i guess. it only matters how your family views it. of course, my family shunned me right away as well. so did some at work even before i da'd myself. all the da'ing did was make ME feel better and keep the elders off my back.

greg

peacefulpete

I shouldn't discourage anyone from trying. I spoke with one fella out in Cal. that says that he was successful in keeping them away by using "dishonest recruitment" angle, that is that he refused to participate in deception to recruit new memebers. For the WT to insist he does to retain membership would be illegal. He had to get heavy and be determined and it involved legal costs just to write letters properly worded. They in the end had poisoned everyone's mind against him without taking the step of dfing him, so if really was a waste of time. I'd love to have tried my propsal though. I knew of a case where someone was told their baptism was invalid because they were involved in sexual activity just prior to baptism. This really could work. Hey you've got to see the new place give us a call.

annulment of baptism

Share this