"We only believe what the Bible says" or Help Refute a Common JW Claim

by Check_Your_Premises 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • the_classicist
    the_classicist

    Hold on, let me fix that. (just imagine the quotations box being there ).

    Among other things, the WTS predicted the following:

    1889"The ?battle of the great day of God almighty? (Rev 16:14) which will end in AD 1914 . . . " (Studies, Vol. 2, 1908 edition, 101).
    1891"With the end of AD 1914, what God calls Babylon, and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as already shown from prophecy" (Studies, Vol. 3, 153).
    1894"The end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble" (WT Reprints, 1-1-1894, 1605 and 1677).
    1897"Our Lord is now present, since October 1874 AD" (Studies, Vol. 4, 1897 edition, 621).
    1916"The six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th day, the 1000 years of Christ?s reign began in 1873" (Studies, Vol. 2, p. 2 of foreword).
    1917"Scriptures . . . prove that the Lord?s Second Advent occurred in the fall of 1874" (Studies, Vol. 7, 68).
    1918"Therefore, we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the faithful prophets of old" (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 89).
    1922"The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the scriptures than 1914" (WT, 9-1-1922, 262).
    1923"1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge" (WT, 4-1-1923, 106).
    1925"The year of 1925 is here. . . . Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year" (WT, 1-1-1925, 3).
    1931"There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah?s faithful ones on earth concerning the dates 1914, 1918, & 1925 . . . and they also learned to quit fixing dates" (Vindication, 388, 389).
    1939"The disaster of Armageddon is just ahead" (Salvation, 361).
    1941"Armageddon is surely near . . . soon . . . within a few years" (Children, 10).
    1946"Armageddon . . . should come sometime before 1972" (They Have Found a Faith, 44).
    1966"Six thousand years from man?s creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E" (Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, 29).
    1968"The end of the six thousand years of man?s history in the fall of 1975 is not tentative, but is accepted as a certain date" (WT, 1-1-1968, 271).

    Besides false prophesies, the WTS has misled its members through countless changes in doctrine and practice:

    "To worship Christ in any form cannot be wrong ... " (WT, 3-1880, 83). "It is unscriptural for worshippers of the living and true God to render worship to the Son of God, Jesus Christ" (WT, 11-1-1964, 671).

    The men of Sodom will be resurrected (WT, 7-1879, 7-8). The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (WT, 6-1-1952, 338). The men of Sodom will be resurrected (WT 8-1-1965, 479). The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (WT 6-1-1988, 31). The men of Sodom will be resurrected (Live Forever, early ed., 179). The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (Live Forever, later ed., 179). The men of Sodom will be resurrected (Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 2, 985). The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (Revelation: Its Grand Climax at Hand! 273).

    "There could be nothing against our consciences in going into the army" (WT, 4-15-1903, 120). Due to conscience, Jehovah?s Witnesses must refuse military service (WT, 2-1-1951, 73).

    "We may as well join in with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event [Christmas] . . . " (WT Reprints, 12-1-1904, 3468). "Christmas and its music are not from Jehovah . . . What is their source? . . . Satan the devil" (WT, 12-15-1983, 7).

    "Everyone in America should take pleasure in displaying the American flag" (WT Reprints, 5-15-1917, 6068). The flag is "an idolatrous symbol" (Awake!, 9-8-71, 14).

    A much longer list of such contradictions and doctrinal twists by the WTS could be formed, but this suffices to remove any reason one might have to believe that "It is through the columns of The Watchtower that Jehovah provides direction and constant scriptural counsel to his people . . . " (WT, 5-1-1964, 277). If that is the case, who is to say what will be taught tomorrow?
  • jeanniebeanz
    jeanniebeanz
    they suspend their reason and simply accept it.

    It's worse than that. They are taught that to use their reasoning is evil, as it is tantamount to questioning divine instructions. The very thought actually repulses them. So, much more than suspending their own reasonings, they have killed the ability to do so out of fear of being destroyed at Armageddon.

    Very sad...

    Jeannie

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    Yes, my JW wife says the same thing as well. I don't quite know the kind of rapport you have with your wife. But one thing I'd like to emphasize is that the #1 thing is to do what you can to ease out of the category of "enemy", "opposer" or even "obstacle". You must make sure that she's not doing this as an escape from some area in her life which she finds lacking. If so, then take whatever steps are necessary to find a resolution. This can include marriage counseling, which can lead to good discussions on why she was motivated to go to the JWs in the first place. Above all, build rapport through communication and understanding. Ask her to help you put yourself in her shoes so you can understand things from her perspective. Then invite her to put herself in your shoes. Get her to tell you why and when you are unreasonable or objectionable. I get the feeling that she's totally on the defensive and is to the point of totally shutting out your reasoning.

    Unfortunately, and I'm sure you know this, she's not joining the witnesses due to reasoning but out of misplaced security. So reasoning alone will not pull her away. There is an emotional longing in her for this fantasy to be the truth. This longing is great enough that she will do whatever is necessary to keep the dream alive. She has placed security into a visible organization, a tangible body of members that she has concluded represents an almost "too good to be true" picture of Godliness on earth. Reasoning originating from some obscured, vilified, outside "apostate" source, no matter how convincing, will not be easily accepted when it flies in the face of all the wonderful love-bombing brothers and sisters and the orchestrated reality she has been experiencing.

    I'd like to give you a quote from another poster, Family Man, who had success with his wife:

    Sorry this is happening to you. I don't have much experience, b/c my wife left the JW pretty quickly after I showed her certain websites and began researching what was out there. Luckily she wasn't fully indoctrinated yet. ALthough, I can say some of the things mentioned here can be useful.

    Jgnat mentioned avoiding the full frontal attack. This was pretty effective with me. Initially - before having done research - I would lash out at my wife for putting the WTS first in our marriage and chanting their line that "it was the truth" when I offered other spiritual sources for us to worship as a couple. I began researching all of the sites out there and formulated my own strategy based on my wifes experience, and personality... that and a lot of prayer.

    In the end I began treating her as lovingly as the JW's were treating her and slowly mentioned that I would consider the JW's if she would at least research the corporation behind the witnesses. Eventually, I had to do most of the leg work, but when she started learning of the scandals and doctrinal hopscotch she slowly came to. Fianlly, the most effective technique
    was to get her to agree to read the bible together, wihtout any supplemental literature.

    During our readings I focused on Jesus' love for all and sacrifice. Pointing out the notion of God's unconditional live and forgiveness b/c of grace.

    I got these suggestions form other websites and chose which ones to use based on my wife's level of involvement and personality.

    In the end it took a lot of love, paience and compassion to plant seeds of doubt about the WTS and help her getthe real bible message.

    Sorry you have to go through this. I hope this helps.

    One thing that I have done to undermine this misplaced security is to demonstrate just how underhanded and misleading their publications are by looking up the source material quoted and showing it to her during our studies. Any "honest seeker of the truth" could not be faulted for doing extra background research. A particularly dishonest one is "Should You Believe in the Trinity?", although you shouldn't use it to argue that her view is wrong; just use it to demonstrate that their "spiritual food" really must be taken with a grain of salt, so to speak.

    As for your question, perhaps another thing you can use is Almost Atheist's info on prohibition of Birthdays vs. prohibition of Eye Makeup (I think he was the one that had a web page on this??)...You can tell her how certain conservative evangelicals find the use of eye makeup as wrong, and that this is based on scripture. Then look up the scriptures which demonstrate that only evil people wore makeup in the Bible. Ask her if she feels this is a reasonable Bible-based position. Compare this with the "Bible-based" position that celebrating birthdays are wrong. Ask her why she rejects one position but is completely confident in the truth of the other position, when the Biblical support is equal for both. Then you can make the point that it's because she has come to put her trust in the source of the one interpretation she accepts. So in this case, it isn't simply a matter of what the Bible says, but who the teacher is. Ask if this could be true about other teachings...

  • Check_Your_Premises
    Check_Your_Premises

    Her baptism is only a few weeks away. I have accepted that I probably won't be able to talk her out of it. I am at peace with that. She may need to pay the price of her blind obedience to a human organization. I may need to pay the price for letting it get this far.

    I am not using the full frontal. In fact I have only described myself as "recently troubled" by her decision. I have told her that I am still open to the religion, but there are serious questions that I have, which is also basically true. I myself do not see how it is possible, but if I was shown some compelling reason, I would be open.

    What I have done is approach her not on the reason involved. That as you pointed out is incidental to her decisions. We believe things because we want to believe them. I have asked her to list all the reasons why she wants to believe TFDS doctrine. Next I have asked her to try to understand all the ways she has been influenced by others to believe what she believes. I found an outstanding book called the Psychology of Influence. It is a book that desrcibes the 6 basic methods that all compliance professionals use. I can and will write a huge post on this subject, but the JW in particular rely heavily on social proof (others say it is true so it is true), and our need for consistency with our commitments (public statements, reading propaganda out loud). She is in the middle of doing these two items grudgingly. Lastly I have asked her to pray for truth. If it is true, ask God to make it obvious. If it is not, ask God to make it obviuos. The key is to be a lover of the truth however.

    Once she has done these things, I am going to ask her to look at some historical items. You don't have to show apostate material. The JW's give their critics plenty of ammo with their own body of work.

    Then my last bullet is to simply beg her not to do it. We have a very good marriage otherwise. I do have a lot of influence over her, and she respects my opinion.

    Again though, I do not have a lot of hope of talking her out of it. She has been studying and being indoctrinated for 3 years. I have only really been confronting this for about 1 month now.

    Thanks for your thoughts though, and keep me in your prayers as well. Ask God to make my wife a lover of truth. I wish you luck, er um I mean, may the laws of probability favor you as well.

  • Poztate
    Poztate
    I have been pointing out to her that her and all JW beliefs come from the interpretation of scripture provided by the GB, and the inherent problems/contradictions therof. But they don't see it that way. They say something like, "We don't put the GB on a pedestal or anything, we believe what we believe because it is in the Bible, not because the GB is telling us to believe it."

    You gave a well presented presentation.....However people join the witnesses not based on facts but on emotions. It is hard to change the mindset of persons(your wife) unless they can discuss it FULLY and not just see the WT side.

    I wish you luck, er um I mean, may the laws of probability favor you as well.

    It's good to keep your sense of humour...You can not always change what is or will be

    Good luck to you POZ

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    Well, I must say that I found it quite alarming that someone so obviously well informed and logical could not dissuade his wife from getting mixed up with this. But now I see that the influence and indoctrination has really set in before you could intervene. It's kind of like she's already taken the full commitment in her mind and now she's just going through the formality. I really will pray for you. Thanks for yours. You definitely seem to be well equipped. Please check your Inbox...

  • yesidid
    yesidid

    You can get a lot of info from Don Cameron's book "Captives of a Concept"

    Good part is you can download it for $5 something. It demolishes TFDS teaching, and, from their own literature.

    I have read a lot of books about the Witnesses, but this is small [150 pages], and very focused on that one teaching. For me, a wonderful $5 investment.

    Chapter 5 of ?Captives of a Concept? mentions ?The One Mistake All Jehovah?s Witnesses Have Made? where it states?

    ?All those who are now Jehovah?s Witnesses have failed to carefully examine the Watchtower?s claim of being God?s ?faithful and discreet slave organization? based upon what Russell and Rutherford had been teaching down till 1919 in fulfillment of Matthew 24:45-47. And all those who become Jehovah?s Witnesses in the future will make this same mistake.?

    Although ?Captives of a Concept? only considers 48 teachings that the Society now admits would have failed such an examination, within those 48 teachings were thousands of portions of improper and untimely spiritual food that had been served millions of times from 1876 to 1919.

  • yesidid
  • NewLight2
    NewLight2

    Hi, and Welcome to JWD!

    You might be able to use the following outline to study with her using only the Bible. If she will agree, I'd use any other Bible but the NWT.


    A Bible Study Outline

    You might want to check out these web pages:

    Jehovah's Witnesses: A Critical Analysis


    NewLight2's Links Page

    Johannes Greber's Home Page

    Here is one that deals with Mind Control and Cults
    Mind Control - The BITE Model

  • Quotes
    Quotes

    (somewhat with tongue in cheek)

    Ask her to prove it (her claim that she believes based on bible reading, not GB pronouncements)!

    Tell her to put up or shut up.

    Tell her to spend 1 year with ZERO contact with JWS and zero use of WT pubilcations. Just a bible (heck use their bible, but add some "real" ones too). Offer to study it with her, but only the bible, no WT stuff. By the end of the year, if she still thinks like a dub, then she doesn't deserve you.

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