"We only believe what the Bible says" or Help Refute a Common JW Claim

by Check_Your_Premises 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  I am presently trying to get my wife to not drink the kool-aid (get baptized)
  

  I have been pointing out to her that her and all JW beliefs come from the interpretation of scripture provided by the GB, and the inherent problems/contradictions therof. But they don't see it that way. They say something like, "We don't put the GB on a pedestal or anything, we believe what we believe because it is in the Bible, not because the GB is telling us to believe it."

  Now to me that sounds like a nice story, I am sure they believe it and all, but I think it is highly doubtful. Naturally we all defer our judgement to those we percieve to be in authority. I read a story about a study done on the problem of mistakes being made in providing medication in hospitals. A huge part of the problem is that when a doctor makes a mistake, the highly trained nurse does not feel the need to question the doctor because of his/her higher status. A particularly funny story had to do with a doctor's prescription to apply ear drops. The prescription said apply drops to R ear. The highly trained and experienced nurse supsended all of his/her own judgement in deference to the doctor, and applied ear drops to the patients rear!

  In the case of the GB, they claim a mandate from the Ultimate Authority! How likely is it that no single JW, ever has found a teaching to be logically weak, or confusing, or even open to other interpretations. I find it more likely that because a given questionable teaching comes from the specially chosen servant of the Ultimate Authority, they suspend their reason and simply accept it.

  Occam's Razor would dictate that the latter explanation is simpler and therefore more likely.

  Also, here is another thing I thought of. How is it, that if they only agree with all the GB doctrine because it is "what the Bible says", why do they all agree with "new light" also? Wasn't the "old light", "just what the Bible said"? So how does the "old light" now become not "just what the Bible says", and the "new light" now does become "just what the Bible says"? And they all agree on it! Nobody has a problem with it? The Bible didn't change. What did? Obviously the only thing that did change was the GB interpretation. The fact that they all accept the change clearly shows that it doesn't come from "just what the Bible says", but rather from all JW's blind acceptance of whatever the "food" the GB provides.

  Please include any thoughts, comments, or arguments.
• 

  minimus

  The GB has made the most convoluted ruling on blood and blood fractions. NO ONE would ever read just the Bible to see the list of what is approved and vwhat is not regarding blood.
• 

  jgnat

  If they are content to do "what the bible" says without the Watchtower filter, ask them why do they have a Hospital Liaison Committee? Shouldn't every hospitalized "believer" be able to discern, by their own conscience, and a careful reading of the scriptures, if a blood fraction is acceptable, without the assistance of an HLC member?

  The truth is, few JW's can use the bible alone as a guide. They also have to be up on the latest "fine tuning" in the Questions from Readers section of the magazine. Otherwise, they may be caught in "error".

  Here's another question, using the bible alone, get any one of them to explain why Pinata's are OK but holly is not.
• 

  freedom96

  It sounds like you are logical, and think clearly.

  Whatever is "truth" must be able to stand up to being challenged. Before she makes such a big step such as getting baptized, she needs to make an educated decision, and look at both sides, pro and against the religion. If it is the "truth", it will hold its own. IF it doesn't, which we already know it won't, then she needs to take a hard look at what she wants to do with her life.

  Do whatever you gotta do to get her to truly study everything. She owes it to both of you to do so now, as she won't be allowed to after baptism, and the consequences at that time will be much greater.
• 

  Gopher

  CYP, your wife said "We don't put the GB on a pedestal or anything."

  I looked up pedestal in the dictionary, and found definition #3 interesting:

  1) pedestal. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000. ...1. An architectural support or base, as for a column or statue. 2. A support or foundation. 3. A position of high regard or adoration. Inflected forms: ped·es·taled...

  JW's do indeed give the GB high regard. They rely on them for all doctrinal interpretation as if their everlasting life depended on it. How much more regard could you possibly give a group of men?
• 

  avishai

  Excellent post. Sorry such a silly lady married such a smart guy (no offense)
• 

  Mutz

  The sad truth is that if the GB decided something that was plainly contrary to the bible
  the rank and file would still go along with it as long is it was dressed up with the
  usual WT balderdash.
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  Easy...
• 

  Odrade

  Here's some nutty stuff... I was reading a book (non-Watchtower) that was talking about the writings of Daniel. I decided to look up how JWs interpret the 1290 days, and 1335 days of Daniel ch. 12. I found this:

  36

  If, now, we measure 1,290 days from that marked date, January 18, 1919, when the eight representatives of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society were still under restraint in the Atlanta federal penitentiary, where do we end up? According to the Bible, those 1,290 days are the equivalent of three lunar years and seven lunar months. According to the lunar calendar, January 18, 1919, fell on Shebat 17, 1919. Three lunar years from then would lead up to Shebat 17, 1922, or February 15, 1922. Seven lunar months counted from that would end with Elul 16, 1922, or at sundown, September 9, 1922. So did the 1,290 days or three lunar years and seven months end at a significant time? The historical facts answer Yes!

  37

  The following day, September 10, 1922, a Sunday, proved to be the sixth day of a nine-day international convention of the International Bible Students Association at Cedar Point, Ohio, U.S.A. It was entitled on the program as "Activity Day." The feature of the day was the public address to an audience of 18,000, by the president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. At the close of his oral argument, the speaker submitted to his audience a resolution called "A Proclamation," which set forth a challenge to all the world rulers. This Proclamation was meant, not for just those conventioners, but for all the world, and subsequent to the Cedar Point convention it was published in tract form and distributed by the tens of millions of copies in many languages.

  38

  The preceding day, Saturday, September 9, was entitled "Consecration Day" and was marked by the mass baptism of 361 men and women in symbol of their dedication to God through Christ. However, Friday, September 8, was entitled "The Day," which featured the address of the Society?s president on the theme found in Matthew 4:17: "The Kingdom of Heaven Is at Hand." (AV) Leading up to the climax of his address, the speaker said:

  "Why, then, deliver the message to those who do not understand? Will any one hear? The Prophet of the Lord answers: ?Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth. Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour. I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, that I am God.??Isaiah 43:8-12.

  "Thus we see that those of the temple class are clearly designated as the Lord?s witnesses at this time, to bring a message of consolation to the people, that the kingdom of heaven is here, . . . "

  So, with all due fitness, the Society?s president could close his rousing speech with this exhortation: "Advertise, advertise, advertise, the King and his kingdom."

  39

  Immediate opportunity to advertise was offered on the day after the public talk and the challenging resolution adopted by all the conventioners. That Monday, September 11, 1922, was entitled "Service Day," and the conventioners sallied forth into the field service, more keenly aware than ever that they were advance publicity agents of God?s glorious kingdom.

  40

  Later on, it was discerned that the public message and the resolution adopted in connection with that public message was the start of the fulfillment of what was foretold in Revelation, chapters eight through sixteen. What was that? The sounding of the seven trumpets and the pouring out of the seven last plagues of Jehovah?s wrath upon this doomed system of things.

  41

  Calculating the 1,290 days of Daniel 12:11 in this here-given way, do we find that they terminated at a very significant time? We have every reason to believe so. There can be little question that the 1,290 days thus calculated mark an epoch for Jehovah?s "holy people" in this time of the end. The supreme issue before the whole universe was then coming to the fore, namely, Jehovah?s Universal Sovereignty.

  HAPPINESS

  AFTER 1,335 DAYS

  42

  What, now, about the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days as marked out in Daniel 12:12? The angel said nothing about when these days were to begin; he merely indicated that they would end with the expectant ones entering into a happiness of noteworthy degree: "Happy is the one who is keeping in expectation and who arrives at the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days!" Evidently these 1,335 days are an extension of time beyond the 1,290 days just mentioned, which had ended in the midst of the I.B.S.A. convention at Cedar Point, Ohio, in 1922. Such an extension of time?for 1,335 days more?called for further endurance on the part of the remnant of Jehovah?s "holy people" that had survived World War I. They had little idea then of the happiness that would be bestowed upon them for enduring and arriving at the end of those 1,335 days. So?when did those days begin and end?

  43

  The second Cedar Point convention ended on September 13, 1922. If, now, we count from the next day, September 14, or, Elul 21, 1922, Bible calendar time, when would the 1,335 days end? As the 1,290 days amounted to three lunar years and seven months, so the 1,335 days would amount to three lunar years, eight months and fifteen days. Counting now from Elul 21 (or, September 14), 1922, we find that three lunar years from that date would end on Elul 20 (or, September 9), 1925. To this we add eight lunar months and fifteen days and arrive at the date Sivan 6 (or, May 19), 1926. That day was the 1,893rd anniversary of the happy day of Pentecost of 33 C.E., when the holy spirit was poured out upon Jesus? disciples at Jerusalem.

  44

  Just prior to this, on May 13-16, 1926, a general assembly had taken place in Magdeburg, Germany, at which the president of the Watch Tower Society had addressed a public audience of 25,000 on the subject "Comfort for the People." Now, on May 19, preparations moved ahead for the holding of the outstanding international convention of 1926, that at Alexandra Palace, London, England, May 25-31. Many happy delegates came from distant lands.

  From the "Our Incoming World Government" book 1977 WTBTS, pages 133-4

  I checked, and although they don't really reference this interpretation anymore, the newer Daniel's prophecy book alludes to this teaching in such a way as shows it has never been "replaced."

  All I can say is
• 

  the_classicist

  First thing to remember is that the JWs have been indirectly (through their publications) training your wife to believe that "Satan's system of things" (of which you are a part of) is trying to keep him or her away from the "truth."

  First thing to do is to point out all the false prophecies that these people have made. This list is taken from catholic.com:

  Among other things, the WTS predicted the following:

  1889	"The ?battle of the great day of God almighty? (Rev 16:14) which will end in AD 1914 . . . " (Studies, Vol. 2, 1908 edition, 101).
  1891	"With the end of AD 1914, what God calls Babylon, and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as already shown from prophecy" (Studies, Vol. 3, 153).
  1894	"The end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble" (WT Reprints, 1-1-1894, 1605 and 1677).
  1897	"Our Lord is now present, since October 1874 AD" (Studies, Vol. 4, 1897 edition, 621).
  1916	"The six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th day, the 1000 years of Christ?s reign began in 1873" (Studies, Vol. 2, p. 2 of foreword).
  1917	"Scriptures . . . prove that the Lord?s Second Advent occurred in the fall of 1874" (Studies, Vol. 7, 68).
  1918	"Therefore, we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the faithful prophets of old" (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 89).
  1922	"The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the scriptures than 1914" (WT, 9-1-1922, 262).
  1923	"1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge" (WT, 4-1-1923, 106).
  1925	"The year of 1925 is here. . . . Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year" (WT, 1-1-1925, 3).
  1931	"There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah?s faithful ones on earth concerning the dates 1914, 1918, & 1925 . . . and they also learned to quit fixing dates" (Vindication, 388, 389).
  1939	"The disaster of Armageddon is just ahead" (Salvation, 361).
  1941	"Armageddon is surely near . . . soon . . . within a few years" (Children, 10).
  1946	"Armageddon . . . should come sometime before 1972" (They Have Found a Faith, 44).
  1966	"Six thousand years from man?s creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E" (Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, 29).
  1968	"The end of the six thousand years of man?s history in the fall of 1975 is not tentative, but is accepted as a certain date" (WT, 1-1-1968, 271).

  
  Besides false prophesies, the WTS has misled its members through countless changes in doctrine and practice:
  
  "To worship Christ in any form cannot be wrong ... " (WT, 3-1880, 83). "It is unscriptural for worshippers of the living and true God to render worship to the Son of God, Jesus Christ" (WT, 11-1-1964, 671).
  
  The men of Sodom will be resurrected (WT, 7-1879, 7-8). The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (WT, 6-1-1952, 338). The men of Sodom will be resurrected (WT 8-1-1965, 479). The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (WT 6-1-1988, 31). The men of Sodom will be resurrected (Live Forever, early ed., 179). The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (Live Forever, later ed., 179). The men of Sodom will be resurrected (Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 2, 985). The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (Revelation: Its Grand Climax at Hand! 273).
  
  "There could be nothing against our consciences in going into the army" (WT, 4-15-1903, 120). Due to conscience, Jehovah?s Witnesses must refuse military service (WT, 2-1-1951, 73).
  
  "We may as well join in with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event [Christmas] . . . " (WT Reprints, 12-1-1904, 3468). "Christmas and its music are not from Jehovah . . . What is their source? . . . Satan the devil" (WT, 12-15-1983, 7).
  
  "Everyone in America should take pleasure in displaying the American flag" (WT Reprints, 5-15-1917, 6068). The flag is "an idolatrous symbol" (Awake!, 9-8-71, 14).
  
  A much longer list of such contradictions and doctrinal twists by the WTS could be formed, but this suffices to remove any reason one might have to believe that "It is through the columns of The Watchtower that Jehovah provides direction and constant scriptural counsel to his people . . . " (WT, 5-1-1964, 277). If that is the case, who is to say what will be taught tomorrow?

  Hope this helps.