Hank and I are not the same but Hank is not here and I am, and Hank says I will be the only person speaking for him. Others do also claim to be speaking for Hank but they are not valid. There is evidence to prove it but it's all packed away in moving crates . . . but you can see it any time you want.
Hank wants you to know he seems to change his mind a lot but that's not true. Hank's beliefs have always been the same. Hank has never believed up is down or that the world is flat or that the moon is made of cheese.
Hank only believes what the happy book says and only goes by the happy book according to his understanding of what it means because he wrote it. I am happy to publish the information Hank sends me based solely on the happy book for your acceptance.
Hank believes other people's point of view is important but unless you agree with Hank I will not be associating with you.
I am not dogmatic in my views because they are not my views, they are Hank's, and Hank expects us to be loyal to him because Hank is real even if no one has ever seen him. Hank did write the happy book and I will be explaining it the way Hank want's it explained.
watchtower red flags
one thing that became a big red flag for me was the fact that every year the wts posts its pub. averages etc., but never will you see a financial report in the watchtower. funny, we needed to be informed on the increase in some obscure country but we the mass collective did not need to know exactly what the wts was worth or where the money is going. this always bugged me and i really believe the common jw believes the wts is basically running on broke, how little they know!
i keep hearing this. does anybody know how many prophecies they got wrong?
This is a good question. An even better one is this: How many prophecies have they got right? Specific examples please.
Steve, that one's reeeeal easy: ZERO...........actually, that's not quite true. Charles Russell did get one prophecy right in the late 1800s. He said in one of the Studies in the Scriptures that according to bible prophecy (I think in Isaiah) the Jews would one day return to Palestine, which we all know happened in 1948 when the State of Isreal was created. Ironically, Booze Rutherford hated the Jews and he went and disregarded this prophecy to where it was supposedly talking about "spiritual Isreal", not fleshly Isreal....so they originally got one prophecy right, but they managed to screw even that up. So it's back to ZERO.
You know, the one thing the dubber always ended up bringing up to me as proof as to why hova was using the org. as his mouth piece, was that "there is no other org. on earth that has love amongst themselves and gets along so well as the dubbers."
this is the biggest load of crap they can try to put on us, any one who goes to the hall can see the politicing, and jocking for posistion amongst the elders and ms, and pioneeres, how many times have we seen the sisters who will only go out with an elder?
If this is love, leave me out. I cant take that kind of love, this from the same org. that says that when you disasociate yourself from your loved ones who are dfed. it is out of love, I cant take that kind of love, seems more like S&M to me, and I have never been into that. FM shoes yes, but socity love? not up for that kind of abuse
After I posted what I wanted to say, I was in such a hurry I forgot to add this to my post after the word BEWARE!!
"Let him that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall." (1 Cor. 10:12)
Like I said are you invincable or infallable that you couldn't fall??
JWBen promised: Some of you strongly disagree that the WTS want let JWs have their own ideas. I will find matterial that shows that they can .
We're still waaaaaaaiiiiting.......................... ............
You mentioned that the JWs seemed to be the only ones who teach doctines closest to the biblical truth as you see it. My question to you is have you actually examined what other christians believe? If you do you may just be surprised at what you find. Many sincere christians that I have talked to do not hold many of the traditional teachings of the church they belong to. Some believe many of the doctines JW also teach such as no hellfire, purgatory, immortality of the soul etc. The big difference is that they are free to express their views and not be shunned or thrown out of their church for doing so. Can you say that being a JW?
The problem that many of us have had being a JW was not so much that they right or wrong about doctrine ( there is no church or organization that has the entire truth - at least none that I have come across ). The main problem that many of us have had is their total insistence on absolute conformity on all current doctrine with little regard for individual conscience. For example, many have died over such issues such as vaccinations, organ transplants, alternative service, blood fractions etc. and continue to die because freedom of conscience is not permitted in this organization. As an ex-jw elder I myself looked into the blood issue and came to the conclusion that I could no longer concientiously support it. This issue along with some other issues is what led to my disassociation from this organization and the consequent shunning that followed.
You say you are not loyal to an organization but to God and that is commendable. What will you do though when you find that loyalty in direct conflict with loyalty to men and their organization? Many of us have had to face that very challenge. What will you do also when you see a friend also treated unfairly because he cannot conscientiously support some of the Societies teachings? Will you speak up in his behalf and perhaps also risk being disfellowshiped yourself?
Our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, called us out to be courageous and bold, to stand up for what is right, to stand up for our brothers against tyranny and oppression and sadly I have seen very few of my fellow elders do so. This is a challenge all christians face whether they are JWs, Catholics, Baptists etc. This is why many of us have left and are leaving. It is a "crisis or conscience" that we face. If you haven't done so yet please read Ray Franz's book "Crisis of Conscience" and you will see the issues that this courageous person faced and why he was disfellowshipped. It may well open your eyes to the truth about this organization that many of us have discovered. For your own sake I challenge you to do so JW Ben.
The thing I would consider is this...
If I honestly and sincerely think that doing something contrary to what the JW organization says I should do is really and truly the will of God, acceptable to him, and pleasing to him... why should I be punished for it? What kind of God punishes people who sincerely believe they are doing what's right in his eyes? Do you punish your child for unintentional ignorance? What kind of God would that be? Not one I'd want to worship.
Yet, in the organization, if through a sincere study of the God's word your understanding of something is sincerely different than that espoused by the organization, you're supposed to bury whatever you think is the HONEST truth and instead blindly accept the word of a human organization. That doesn't seem right.
JW Ben said:
You evedently are under a misconception here. Of course JWs are alowed to have their own ideas if they do not agree with the WTS. and they are allowed to talk about it. The Bible shows that the apostles had their own ideas at times. But in time they were corrected. The only time a JW should get into trouble about having his own ideas, is if they try to convince others they are wrong and not the WTS.
No, Ben, that is simply not correct. Proof:
*** Watchtower Apr 1, 1986 p.30-31 Questions From Readers ***
Questions From Readers
? Why have Jehovah's Witnesses disfellowshipped (excommunicated) for apostasy some who still profess belief in God, the Bible, and Jesus Christ?
Approved association with Jehovah's Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah's Witnesses.
Notice it says simply "accepting" them. If it is determined, perhaps by admission after questioning, that you do not "accept the entire range" of JW doctrine, you can (will?) be DF'd for apostasy. It is not necessary to be openly teaching your differing beliefs, it is only necessary to hold different beliefs.
When I was 17 years old, I was interviewed by an elder who was investigating a close relative for alleged apostasy. When I honestly told that I had never, ever heard that relative repeating the apostate they were alleged to have taught, the investigation actually degenerated to the elder asking me if I felt that the alleged apostate ever thought that way. Yes, they were actually asking me to read into the mind and heart of this person, and using this a "fact gathering". If I remember correctly, it was around 1986, same time that the above quotes Watchtower was printed.