by MoeJoJoJo 12 Replies latest jw friends
Those of you who have helped family and friends out of the org, what line of reasoning worked well for you? What scriptures did you use?
Any help you can give, I would appreciate.
"plant your own garden and decorate your own soul, instead of waiting for someone to bring you flowers." -Veronica A. Shoffstall
MoeJo,
Each case is different, it might help us if you gave us some details. Only this, frontal attacks are generally ineffective.
YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]
I can tell you what NOT to do. Don't go into a conversation saying you've read Ray Franz's book "Crisis for Conscience". Haha! You'll be labeled apostate and they won't listen to you at all about anything! Be gentle, non-emotional, and calm. They'll respect that as much as any evidence you could bring to the table.
Billygoat
Another NOT TO DO:
1. Don't tell them you learned it on the Internet.
What *might* work - any WTBTS article you can quote - or actually scan. It's their own people talking then. Randy Watters on Freeminds has a whole book of nothing but WTBTS literature scans for closed minded jw's (which I used to be also.)
We can say this now without looking over our shoulder - Good Luck to you.
Nice to meet you, btw.
waiting
I don't understand why, but this has helped me get 3 kids back out of the organization (after dragging them in from birth)
I would say things like...I just read <pick one, Rutherford's,russell's>book, and it was very interesting. I just read the Society's Proclaimer's of God's Kingdom book, page number or chapter whatever. I just read <watchtower/awake/issue whatever. Don't tell them what it says in advance if you can help it.
What I've been saying to Witnesses i meet, "My heart goes out to Jehovah's Witnesses, this is a difficult time for them. Seven failed prophecies, child molestations, etc etc. God bless you in this difficult time." or something to that effect. it tends to open the floodgates!
If you give them permission to be a Witness, they can't wait sometimes to get out. Maybe some other posters on this board can give insight into this.
Life is a roller coaster. Get in, sit down, shut up and hang on!
Thanks for the comments.
I myself have not left the org totally-in spirit and heart I have. I still attend meetings. It would help if I had the support of my husband in leaving but he feels that it is God's organization.
I have tried to show him various things from the publications-failed prophecy, etc. He was surprised to see the year 1975 actually in print in the pubs since we had both been told that it was just some excited brothers that came up with that date, not the WTBTS.
The recent DC threw everything out the window though. What he said he learned from the drama stuck in my mind. He feels that "those taking the lead" in the past also made mistakes-Moses, and those who questioned Moses' authority (Korah) were destroyed. The drama also stressed that we should not be indecisive when Korah's relative who was indecisive was also destroyed (but I have seen no mention of him in the account in Numbers-? unless I'm missing it. I'm guessing that character was added to get a certain point across- -hmmm?)
Anyways, I was hoping to use something with him that he can not just excuse away. Something that worked well for some of you.
"plant your own garden and decorate your own soul, instead of waiting for someone to bring you flowers." -Veronica A. Shoffstall
MoJo...,
'Anyways, I was hoping to use something with him that he can not just excuse away. Something that worked well for some of you.'
Good thought. Most of the advice the others have mentioned was using their own quotations against them. That goes along w/ your thinking. Take it slow, because you may find the answer here on the web (this DB or sites such as freeminds.org), but to 'make it your own', you will have to appear to be a real busy bee at the libraries, yourself. To make it easy, there are lists of such things as reversals (flip-flops), 'tacking' ( Venice posted this on her website, I believe), failed dates and so forth. Use those to prime your search.
I didn't really bring anybody out w/ me, although my brother came out about in parallel. I left in 1975. That's the main reason I posted. I actually left at the start of '75, for personal reasons, not the usual one for that time period.
But, it was in the literature, Brooklyn definitely started it. The real kicker was the speech that Franz made in Yankee Stadium. He was certain that this was it. Check some of Amazing's old posts. (Don't know if he posted it here, or on H2O, though.) He reported on several of a number of 'local' special 1-day meetings that the GB did to talk about just '75.
They seemed to backpedal in the latter half of their act, though. Having friends in close contact w/ Bethel, it was obvious that Brooklyn was abuzz & excited, too. So, it wasn't some local phenomenon.
'Some excited brothers' is such a joke that its pathetic. That revisionist history you just mentioned is another proof of their Teflon coated lack of integrity.
Mustang
Dear MoJoe...
Just wanted to tell you that you're certainly in my thoughts and I wish you all the best in coping with your drifting away from the Borg.
I have heard talk about the drama at the assembly, it also had a profound effect on my very JW sister (every time she starts to see a crack of light, Brooklyn finds a way to slam the window shut on her mind again ) She went on and on about the WT study yesterday, which was posted about on this board, and how it 'proved the Org. is really God's arrangement'. HA! Basically all they kept saying was "We have God's backing!" over and over for the length of the thing. It's like someone standing up, stomping their feet and saying "Respect me!" while throwing a temper fit. It doesn't inspire confidence, does it?
I just wanted you to know that there are a lot of other women out there going through what you are: I've corresponded with many of them. Avail yourself of all the support you can: there is a great e mail group called Women-Awake that is just for ladies and is a very supportive place. At least it was for me!!!
It's part of Yahoo groups and you can get there from that web site. If you would like me to mail you the URL, just drop me a note.
(((hugs))))
Esmeralda
Thanks mustang and es for the advice. I think what my problem has been is that I have been going from one topic to another with him. I think I will try to stick with one thing at a time and prove that undeniably incorrect as to the society's standpoint then move on to the next thing.
Yes Es. I would like that URL-I could use some more support. And thanks for the hug-here's one for you.<<<<>>>>
"plant your own garden and decorate your own soul, instead of waiting for someone to bring you flowers." -Veronica A. Shoffstall
MoJoJoJo:
There are a couple of excellent articles on Randy's site that deal with this:
http://www.freeminds.org/family/family.htm
and this by a frequent poster here:
http://www.freeminds.org/psych/exithelp.htm
I will leave it up to this individual to identify themself.
CPiolo
The worst vice of the fanatic is his sincerity. -- Oscar Wilde
