DNA - belief destuction

by donkey 85 Replies latest jw friends

  • a Christian
    a Christian

    City Fan, You wrote: I think people living 3 millennia ago would have understood a sentence such as "and Elohim made the Moon to circle around the Earth, and the Earth to circle around the Sun". ... Someone on this board once re-wrote Genesis 1 as it should have been if truly inspired ... SNG, You wrote: It is possible to write clearly and accurately, such that people in different lands, in different cultures, in different times can still understand what you are talking about. ... If the Bible were truly God's word, I would expect it to be written like that. ... Why can't you just read the book and have it make sense? If this book were really the work of an intelligent, benevolent Creator-person, s/he should have been able to write simply, clearly, and accurately.

    You both appear to be laboring under the same two misconceptions.

    Your first misconception: Christians believe that God intended and desired for the contents of the Bible to be easily and clearly understood by all of its readers.

    Christians do not believe this. Christians believe that Jesus Christ created our universe and all that is in it. As Colossians 1:16 tells us, "For by him [Jesus Christ] all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him." (Col. 1:16) We also believe Jesus Christ was the great "I AM" of the Old Testament. (John 8:58; Ex. 3:14) Because we believe these things we believe that Jesus Christ Himself inspired the writing of both the Old and New Testaments. Because we believe that He did, we understand that the entire Bible was written in the same way that Jesus Christ spoke while on earth. For a person writes like he speaks. How did Jesus Christ speak? Jesus Christ spoke in parables, stories which were designed not to be easily and clearly understood by all, but were designed to impart accurate knowledge only to Christ's disciples, and to withhold knowledge from people whose hearts were not inclined toward God.

    In confirmation of this fact, Matthew 13:10-15 tells us, "The disciples came and said to Him, 'Why do You speak to them in parables?' Jesus answered them, 'To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted. For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, you will keep on hearing , but will not understand; you will keep on seeing, but will not perceive; for the heart of this people has become dull.' "

    So, with these things in mind, we can see that the Bible itself indicates that God did not intend or desire for the contents of the Bible to be easily and clearly understood by all of its readers.

    Your second misconception: Christians believe that God inspired the Bible to be written in a way that would be able to convince all skeptics that it is the Word of God.

    Christians do not believe this. If the Bible contained scientific information not available to ancient people or was written in such a way that made it clearly obvious to all people that it must be the inspired Word of God, then we would all be forced to acknowledge God's existence and His inspiration of the Bible right now. And that would defeat God's own stated purpose. For the Bible tells us God has chosen to save that time for Judgment Day. (Romans 14:9-12)

    The fact of the matter is, Christians believe it is not the Bible, but God Himself by means of His Holy Spirit, who draws people to Christ, convicts them of sin, and provides them with all the evidence they need to put their faith in Him. (John 16:8; 1 Cor. 3:6,7; 12:3; 2 Cor. 4:13; Eph. 2:8)

  • seattleniceguy
    seattleniceguy

    a Christian:

    Actually, I was "laboring" under neither of those impressions, but I found it interesting to have it cleary enunciated that 1) you do not expect the Bible to be understandable by all readers, and 2) you do not believe the Bible is written in such a way that would prove to readers it is the word of God.

    I've heard this argument about the Bible only being understandable with the help of God's Holy Spirit, to those with hearts inclined toward God, etc, etc, more times that you can possibly imagine. And I'll tell you what: it's baloney. I tried to be a Christian in the most sincere way possible, I prayed to God regularly, and I read the Bible diligently, but it was this book itself that forced me to stop believing it was anything else that a bunch of hogwash, to put it so bluntly.

    Secondly, you openly say that the entire Bible is written the way Jesus spoke: in parable. If that's the case, why do you arbitrarily choose to take some sections of it literally? Why not just take the creation account as a parable and play nice with science? Methinks the only reason you choose to take the creation account literally is because you don't want to accept the facts of evolution. Or, in your terminology, "your heart is not inclined toward reality."

    SNG

  • a Christian
    a Christian

    Nice Guy, You wrote: Secondly, you openly say that the entire Bible is written the way Jesus spoke: in parable. If that's the case, why do you arbitrarily choose to take some sections of it literally? Jesus did not always speak in parables. But He often did so. And the Bible tells us that when He did so, He did so in order to convey information to His friends and to hide information from His enemies. (Matt. 13:10-15) So my point was that the entire Bible was most likely written in a similar way, not all in parables, but in a way that was not meant to be entirely understandable to everyone. You wrote: Me thinks the only reason you choose to take the creation account literally ... I do not take the creation account literally, not Genesis chapter one anyway. You wrote: you don't want to accept the facts of evolution. You must have me mixed up with someone else here. I accept all the facts of evolution. I believe God used evolution as His means of creation. I believe all life on earth evolved from a common microscopic ancestor which first appeared on earth some 3.8 billion years ago. Earlier in this thread I wrote: Christians have always understood that God made Adam much more than an animal. We have long understood that God "created" Adam by giving him an eternal spirit which at the time of his death would not "go down into the earth" like "the spirit of an animal" but would "rise upward" and "return to God who gave it." (Eccl. 3:21; 12:7) Having an eternal spirit given to us by God, a spirit which will survive our death and then return to God, is what makes us human. It is what made Adam human. It is also what made men before Adam human. When God created the human race, before His creation of Adam and Eve, I believe He did so by then giving highly evolved primates eternal spirits, spirits which at the time of their deaths would not "go down into the earth" like "the spirits of animals" bit would "rise upward" and "return to God who gave them." I believe this was the creative act referred to in Gen. 1:27. It is understandable that you did not read what I wrote earlier. Those words were part of a post that was addressed to Derek. And they were buried in the middle of a long post.

  • a Christian
    a Christian

    SNG,

    You wrote: I tried to be a Christian in the most sincere way possible, I prayed to God regularly, and I read the Bible diligently, but it was this book itself that forced me to stop believing it was anything else that a bunch of hogwash, to put it so bluntly.

    A dozen years after having left the JWs I could have written those exact same words.

  • seattleniceguy
    seattleniceguy

    a Christian:

    You must have me mixed up with someone else here. I accept all the facts of evolution. I believe God used evolution as His means of creation. I believe all life on earth evolved from a common microscopic ancestor which first appeared on earth some 3.8 billion years ago.

    My apologies. Looks like I was preaching to the choir on that one. My bad. :-) How'd you like my revamped Genesis?

    SNG

  • a Christian
    a Christian

    Nice Guy,

    You asked: How'd you like my revamped Genesis?

    Actually I liked it very much. The truth is I have often wished that Genesis and many other parts of the Bible had been written differently. If only Genesis had been written more like you wrote it maybe more scientific types would accept Christ as their Lord, or so I have thought. If only other parts of the Bible had been written more clearly, then the cults would not be able to mislead and enslave so many people, or so I have thought.

    But I believe now my thinking was in error. As I believe yours was in error when you wrote, "If the Bible were truly God's word, I would expect it to be written like that."

    For I am convinced beyond all doubt that the writing of the Bible was inspired by God. That being the case, if I ever now find myself thinking in such a way I remember the words of Isaiah 45:9. There we are told, "Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker. An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Should the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' "

    I now realize that God did not intend or desire for all of the Bible to be understood by all its readers, or for its contents to convince all skeptics that it is the Word of God. For, as I said earlier, it is not the Bible but God Himself who draws people to Christ and gives them everything they need to put their faith in Him.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit