in the 80s , i saw a saucer type machine flying at tree level near some govt land in georgia. it made very little noise and seemed to hover. i was about to crap till it flew over closer and i could see USAF on the bottom. i thought it was the much talked about " stealth bomber" till a few months later the stealth bomber was shown on tv and it wasnt that. dunno what it was but i sure was glad to see USAF on the bottom!
Did you ever see a UFO?
i've seen lots of celestial objects in the night sky, like satellites, space stations, shooting stars, comets, etc.
but no, no UFO's. i'd luv to, though.
Yes.............I saw a UFO in broad daylight in the early1990's and it freaked me out because us good dubs knew there was no such thing. But my workmate saw it too and the hair stood up on the back of our neck.
If anyone is familiar with the Foo Fighters (and I don't mean the band) from WW II.........well I saw exactly what they saw.
Check out the Foo Fighters on the web. Also check out Kecksburg............that's the town near me that a UFO supposedly crashed in the 1950's I believe. I worked with a guy who was in the National Guard and saw it being hauled off.
This is a huge and immensly subject, well beyond the scope of this message board but well worth pursuing by private study. It's great that this discussion is taking place in a cool calm rational setting.
To get any handle on it at all involves a detailed study of aerodynamics (boundry layer effects etc..), the intricate workings of the human eye/brain, astophysics, atmosheric anomolies, materials science, chemisty, quantum physics etc... It's surprises me how many people don't even know we have nuclear powered aircraft.
During the big UFO/50 year Roswell aniversary much was revealed and covered up. How does one evaluate LtCorso and others of the highest possible military rank in Britain, the US, Russia and elsewhere swearing on oath that they believed things beyond the military's present capability are flying about our little planet?
Are there upper atmospheric beasts flitting about the place? Are we indeed alone? I find it very amusing that the ardent knockers are usually the most woefully ignorant of the subject or have other barrows to push. It's kinda funny how Carl Sagan tried to deny any possibility that we have been "visited" yet, was at the forefront of spending billions on the seti program.
I've read just about everything I could lay my hands on about UFO's and all things related and well .. for me it's all still up in the air..
EDIT: Wow happy dad interesting stuff.
You do know that the Foo fighters were designed and made by one Victor Schwaberger - a very interesting man.
Shwaberger was an amazing man of science like Tesla and Einstein.
in a ny bethel minute,
when i was still a jdub sometimes i would express my belief in UFO's (as meaning that there is such a thing as intelligent life on other planets) and i was told i couldn't because that would put the whole "sovereignty issue" into question because those aliens would have been made long before man was and they would have either been loyal to God or not... to which i said, "hey thanks for your opinion, but i'll keep believing what i like."
They actually published something on aliens once in the Awake mag:
*** g90 4/8 pp. 9-11 Extraterrestrials?Finding the Answer ***
Extraterrestrials?Finding the Answer
ON February 17, 1600, a man named Giordano Bruno was burned alive in a public square of Rome, Italy. Why? His writings had offended the church. Among other things, he taught that there were many inhabited worlds in the universe. Back in the 11th century, the church had declared that doctrine, the plurality of worlds, a heresy. To teach it was to die. Bruno died.
Until the 19th century, the debate over whether life exists on other worlds was carried on in the arena of religion. For centuries, religious leaders and scientists under their influence insisted that the earth was at the center of the universe; that the universe was created in 4004 B.C.E.; and so forth.
Small wonder, then, that many scientists and others have little respect for religion. In the process, though, many have lost their respect for the Bible as well, imagining that it was the source of all those misconceptions. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The Bible does not purport to be a science textbook. However, it is never inaccurate when it touches on the subject of the universe or on any scientific matter. For example, the Bible never says that the earth and man are the center of the universe. On the contrary, its inspired writers showed a clear sense of how insignificant man is compared to the vast cosmos.?Psalm 8:3, 4.
So, then, according to the Bible, is anyone out there?
According to the Bible, extraterrestrial life not only exists but exists in abundance. It is more complex, more interesting, and more believable than anything that evolutionists, science-fiction writers, and moviemakers have dreamed up. After all, an extraterrestrial is simply a being who originates outside this earth and its atmosphere.
Scientists wonder if there might be life-forms beyond our ability to detect. The Bible assures us that such beings do indeed exist. But they are not the products of evolution. Like all life in the universe, in whatever form, they came from the Source of life, Jehovah God. He is a spirit Being, and he has created myriads of other spirit beings of different types: angels, cherubs, and seraphs. They perform different work and functions in his intricate heavenly organization.?Psalm 104:4; Hebrews 12:22; Revelation 19:14.
WhatAbout Life on Other Planets?
Some influential religious figures have insisted that God would not create any world without purpose and that all habitable worlds must therefore be inhabited. Is that what the Bible says? No. The Bible indicates that it is very unlikely that God at this point has created intelligent physical creatures on any planets other than our own. How so?
If God did create such beings, he did so before he created Adam and Eve. Such beings either remained faithful to their Creator, or like Adam and Eve, they sinned and fell into imperfection.
But if they became imperfect, they needed a redeemer. As one essayist put it: "One has this dreadful thought that on Friday [the day Jesus Christ was executed], every Friday, somewhere in the universe Jesus is being hanged high for someone?s sins." But that is not Scriptural. The Bible tells us that Jesus "died with reference to sin once for all time."?Romans 6:10.
What if these beings had remained perfect? Well, when Adam and Eve sinned, they were, in effect, questioning God?s right to rule over a world of intelligent physical beings. If another planet existed at that time, a world full of intelligent physical beings who were living harmoniously and loyally under God?s rule, would they not have been called in as witnesses to testify that God?s rule does indeed work? This conclusion seems inescapable, since he has already used even imperfect humans as witnesses in his behalf on that very issue.?Isaiah 43:10.
Does that mean, then, that God created all those countless millions of suns (and planets if they exist) for no purpose? Not at all. While we know, considering the uniqueness of Jesus Christ, that the earth is the only inhabited planet in the universe right now, and while we know, too, that it will forever stand unique as the planet where the Creator vindicated the rightfulness of his rulership, what the future holds we do not know.
WeAre Not Alone
Day after day, year in and year out, SETI astronomers continue to comb the skies for signals from intelligent life. They feel that their search may take another decade, or it may take a century. How ironic! They are spending their lives, their hopes, and huge amounts of money looking for a signal that mankind received centuries ago. For the Bible itself is a message from an extraterrestrial Intelligence, and it is superior in every way to the signals that even the most optimistic scientists envision.?See box on page 10.
How has mankind responded to the only genuine extraterrestrial message? How do humans, by and large, respond to the Bible? They ignore it. They deliberately misapply it to their own ends. They insult its Sender with an appalling array of baseless and superstitious teachings. They even call it a fraud and deny the very existence of its Sender. Needless to say, our Creator has been far from pleased with humanity?s response. Still, he has continued to communicate. By means of his Word, he is educating millions of people today in the ways of peace. These people represent Jehovah and carry his communications to the world. But only a tiny minority of mankind listens to them. The world in general turns a deaf ear.?Isaiah 2:2-4; Matthew 24:14.
Happily, though, each of us can communicate with the greatest Being in the universe, and this without expensive technology, without waiting ages for messages to cross the void of space. You can listen now by studying your Bible and proving for yourself whether it does indeed come from a superhuman Source. You can respond by prayer and by the way you live your life. We are not alone. Our Creator promises that "he is not far off from each one of us."?Acts 17:27; see also 1 Chronicles 28:9.
He has not finished communicating with humanity either. He has promised to change drastically the course of world history, to end mankind?s headlong rush toward self-destruction by completely dismantling this unworkable system of things and replacing it with a government of his own making, one that will really work for the good of all. (Daniel 2:44; Isaiah 9:6, 7) Yes, the next communication from the greatest extraterrestrial Intelligence promises to come in the form of action, not words.?2 Thessalonians 1:6-9.
Neo you seems to have the whole WTBS librairy in your house ... editted to add : with a search engine
I have never seen one but would love to. I certainly beleive that it is a complete possibility if not a probability that there is life (as we know it) out there somewhere.
I think it is a bit vain and conceded of humans to believe otherwise.
just my .02
Kansas District Overbeer
Neo you seems to have the whole WTBS librairy in your house ... editted to add : with a search engine
Well, it happens that I just remembered there was another article on the subject. There goes another lenghty quote taken from the WT CD-ROM:
*** g90 11/8 UFO?s?Can They Be Identified? ***
UFO?s?Can They Be Identified?
How do scie ntists explain UFO?s? The late Dr. Donald H. Menzel, a Harvard astronomer, and Philip Klass, former senior editor of Aviation Week, are among those who have studied the subject of UFO sightings. They affirm that UFO?s are actually IFO?s (identified flying objects). When investigated, UFO?s have turned out to be identifiable things or effects, such as weather balloons, nighttime advertising airplanes and helicopters, meteors, or sun dogs.
Philip Klass explained UFO?s as natural phenomena or as incorrect identifications. As an example, according to him, some UFO?s were suspected of being a kind of ball lightning, or a plasma. His critics were quick, however, to say that plasmas, or highly ionized gases, can have very short lifetimes and do not adequately explain the problem. He says that some UFO?s seen on radar are artifacts of weather phenomena. However, according to some radar operators, this explanation does not account for the seemingly intelligent behavior sometimes observed. Klass?s thought is that people who are suddenly exposed to a brief unexpected event "may be grossly inaccurate in trying to describe precisely what they have seen."
In his book Pseudoscience and the Paranormal, Terence Hines states that "careful investigation has resulted in straightforward natural explanations for even very impressive-sounding UFO reports. . . . All these cases make clear the nearly total unreliability of eyewitness reports. In almost every case, the witnesses? reports differed substantially from the actual stimulus, but in only a very few cases were the witnesses willfully lying. Their knowledge about what UFOs ?ought? to look like influenced their reports, along with the effects of visual illusions."
UFO?s?Guidedby Beings From Space?
A popular theory is that UFO?s may be associated with intelligent beings from outer space. The late Dr. James McCampbell was a leader among those who came to this conclusion. He warned: "It would appear that a superintelligent alien species is indeed becoming a more intimate part of our earth?s environment." Major Donald E. Keyhoe, "a retired Marine Corps officer turned free-lance writer . . . first popularized UFOs and claimed they were extraterrestrial spacecraft," according to Philip Klass, writer of UFOs?The Public Deceived. Keyhoe also advanced the "beings from space" theory and warned: "If the aliens? purpose should be migration to Earth, it would set off a wave of fear and hysteria."
Another concept that has captured the interest of some investigators is that UFO?s are superior beings that inhabit a "parallel universe." According to this theory, these beings may be "able to manipulate the electrical circuits of the human mind." With this ability, they could presumably control human governments. Some say they may be connected with "intelligences [that involve] the world?s leading religious movements, miracles, angels, ghosts, fairies, poltergeists, and the like."?UFO and The Limits of Science, by Ronald D. Story.
UFO?s?CanWe Identify Them?
As we have observed, some investigators are quite positive that they can identify all UFO?s as natural things or known phenomena. Others, however, present their own special theories.
It was while the Condon Report and the subject of UFO?s was still a matter of public concern that Awake! provided a review of the subject along with a discussion of some of the more spectacular cases. Awake! reached the conclusion that "the great majority of all [UFO] reports have their origin in the same kinds of things that Project Blue Book [an earlier government study] named: Planets, airplanes, balloons, meteorites, mirages."
The article continued: "The more thorough investigation [summarized in the Condon Report] has clarified the part played by physical and psychological distortions. It has explained how ordinary objects, seen in the sky by persons who do not recognize them under the perhaps unusual circumstances, can be misconstrued in perception, magnified in the telling, further exaggerated in the newspapers, and end up as spaceships landing little green men from Mars."
The official Condon Report and conclusions as above, coupled with diminished UFO reports, seemed to end the matter for many. Nevertheless, two decades later we find UFO?s still getting public attention. As mentioned in our first article, a writer for one prominent journal observed that a new element has been added. We live with a backdrop of "deep-seated and apocalyptic fears" as we approach the year 2000.
Even more uncertainties developed from recent claims that in the past the United States and even other governments may have ignored or covered up some evidence of UFO?s. The author of a 1988 publication took advantage of the Freedom of Information Act, established in 1966 in the United States, together with sources in other countries, to gather information that according to him "proves beyond doubt that there has been a monumental cover-up of the UFO subject."?Above Top Secret, by Timothy Good.
Gary Kinder, in his book Light Years, raises questions as to what proof is needed to convince the authorities of the existence of UFO?s. He notes that one observer asks: "What constitutes proof [of UFO?s]? Does a UFO have to land at the River Entrance to the Pentagon, near the Joint Chiefs of Staff Offices? Or is it proof when a ground radar station detects a UFO, sends a jet to intercept it, the jet pilot sees it, and locks on with his radar, only to have the UFO streak away at phenomenal speed?"
On the other hand, Professor Hines argues that the 997 pages of documents released, covering the period from 1949 to 1979, do not reveal an attempt at a government cover-up. He states: "An examination of the secret CIA papers and documents on UFOs reveals an agency mildly interested in the phenomenon but skeptical of the extraterrestrial hypothesis. These documents . . . also contradict the oft-repeated claims of a government cover-up of the ?truth? about UFOs."
One of the foremost reasons for the lack of proof is that no UFO has ever been publicly exhibited, nor have any extraterrestrial beings officially presented themselves for public recognition. Furthermore, alleges Professor Hines, "there is no UFO photo that can be considered genuine showing anything other than vague shapes or blobs of light." Time and again, experts have identified UFO?s as misinterpreted sightings of Venus or of other celestial bodies. It is evident that no solution to the UFO problem has been satisfactory to all.
At the time that the Condon Report was in the news, an Awake! contributor discussed privately some of the results with one of the associated scientists working at Boulder, Colorado. The scientist seemed to think that in the unexplained cases, the UFO experiences involved "mental perceptions" of some kind. Thus, although many UFO sightings can be explained scientifically as physical things or wrong identifications, some may involve mental or psychological experiences or perceptions.
IsThere an Occult Influence?
When reviewing the mental or psychological experiences of some who have reported contacts with UFO?s, it is also possible to recognize similarities with spiritistic or other paranormal phenomena. One example of this is the testimony of John H. Andrews in his book The Extraterrestrials and Their Reality. In his acknowledgments of help in producing the book, he states: "Great appreciation also goes to the four space people ["ET?s in physical human bodies who circulate unnoticed among us"] who told me their stories and who wished to remain unnamed, to the numerous psychics and channels who assisted me with my many experiments, to the extraterrestrials for their many informative messages." Regarding these "space people," he states: "They were all quite intelligent; all were channels for invisible entities."?Compare 1 Samuel 28:7, 8; Ephesians 6:12.
Andrews also claims to have received messages from extraterrestrials. He lists some of these as: "There is no such thing as death. . . . There is no such thing as good or evil. [Compare Genesis 3:3, 4.] . . . Creation, evolution, and reincarnation are valid processes at work in the Universe. . . . We (the ET?s) are not here to control or rule you, but to guide you. . . . The Earth will soon undergo tremendous, cataclysmic changes. When these changes are completed, less than 1/1,000 of the present population will still be alive!"
The Bible also speaks of extraterrestrials, spirit creatures, such as obedient angels and disobedient, rebellious angels who became demons. Down through Bible history, God on many occasions used faithful angels to communicate with men. (Genesis 22:9-18; Isaiah 6:1-7) Satan still uses his demon followers to mislead mankind with all kinds of philosophies, fads, messages, communications, and cults that distract from the message that God?s Kingdom, his heavenly government, will soon rule over a restored earth.?Compare Luke 4:33, 34; James 2:19; Revelation 12:9; 21:1-4.
The Christian apostle Paul gave due warning of demon influence in the last days when he wrote: "The inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons."?1 Timothy 4:1.
Keeping in mind how deep we are into these apocalyptic days, it would not be advisable for Christians to spend their valuable time investigating in depth matters of this kind. Rather, we should concern ourselves with the more important challenge at hand, that is, obeying the command of the extraterrestrial holy angel who proclaimed: "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of the judgment by him has arrived, and so worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and sea and fountains of waters."?Revelation 14:6, 7.
A sun dog, or parhelion, is a bright spot that appears on either side of the sun, also known as a mock sun.
See Awake!, February 8, 1970, pages 5-9.
[Box on page 10]
UFO?s?The Scientific View"Astronomy and UFOs are related: if people knew more about astronomy, there would be far fewer UFO sightings."?Astronomy, December 1988.
"Venus is the brightest of all the planets in the night sky and is responsible for more UFO reports than any other single object. . . .
"Modern airport radars now automatically identify all aircraft in their area . . . As radars have become more sophisticated at correctly identifying aircraft and filtering out sources of error, the number of radar UFO reports has dropped almost to zero. Of course, if UFOs were real, one would expect . . . modern radar to increase the number of UFOs seen on radar. . . .
"In nearly forty years of investigation, not one authentic photo of a UFO has been taken and not one piece of genuine debris or other physical evidence has been found. Impressive-sounding sightings are reported year after year and, year after year, when carefully examined, they disappear into the mists of misperceptions, misidentifications, and hoaxes."?Pseudoscience and the Paranormal, by Terence Hines.
"Much of the trouble arises from the fact that the sky presents an almost endless variety of peculiar sights and objects, only a few of which are likely to be encountered by one person in a lifetime. And when this does happen, he may be misled into thinking that he has seen something extraordinary?instead of merely unfamiliar. . . .
"Seldom has any subject been so invested with fraud, hysteria, credulity, religious mania, incompetence, and most of the other unflattering human characteristics."?The Promise of Space, by Arthur C. Clarke.
"I should like to see these profound words inscribed on the threshold of all the temples of science: ?The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.?"?Louis Pasteur, 19th-century French scientist.
Neo : I see ;-)
How do scie ntists explain UFO?s? The late Dr. Donald H. Menzel, a Harvard astronomer, and Philip Klass,
WARNING: These goons were not scientists in any real sense of the word. They have both been thoroughly discredited by the scientific community. The UFO field has been and continues to be a convenient cover for covert military technological developments. Putting your faith in these guys is the scientific equivalent of a theology student accepting a free home bible study or worse
Unclebruce, not fooled by swamp gas from Venus.