by chuckyy 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I have always had a problem even when a JW with the WTBS view on the bodily resurrection. If your body is destroyed following death, and there is no soul, what then is being resurrected???
How can it be you???.....Its a new body and only a recording of your thoughts that was in Gods memory that is put into this new body......how can it truly be the same person????
In Judaism, the doctrines of resurrection and soul survival (if not immortality) grew out together, out of Persian and Greek influence. They were adopted together (e.g. by the Pharisees) or rejected together (e.g. by the Sadducees). This has been pointed out and documented in a number of past threads (especially by Leolaia).
The WT hybrid doctrine is an artificial construction which tries to combine the Sadducean view of death (e.g. Ecclesiastes) with the Pharisaic view of resurrection (e.g. Daniel). It results in the most unsatisfactory idea of "re-creation", which lacks the continuity of some form of I (or "soul") between death and resurrection.
This is where the old accusation that JWs believe in "soul-sleep," if not accurately representing their beliefs, would at least present something more logical. If there were some essence that survived the death of the body, even though it might be unconscious between death and resurrection, there would at least be some continuity between the person who died and the person who is resurrected.
chucky ... 'how can that be the same person'?
Do you not believe Jesus was the same person when he was brought back? People who knew him didn't recognize him by sight but did once he spoke.
People who knew him didn't recognize him by sight but did once he spoke.
Erm... not always: in Luke 24:13ff two of them walk about seven miles chatting with him, and only recognise him later, in a gesture (bread fraction).
Actually the apparition stories use a lot of different recognition processes: instant knowledge for every "seer", or leaving some in doubt (Matthew), same body with marks of nails and spear (Thomas), voice (Mary)...
chuckyy....I came to the same realization as you when I was 8 or 9 years old. I even remember when it happened: at the book study when we were going over the Life book. The teaching just didn't make any sense.
Here are some earlier threads on this subject:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/59765/1.ashx
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/62792/1.ashx
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/78201/1.ashx
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/78223/1.ashx
I remember one explanation that the last to die would be the first to be resurrected so that they could be recognized by family and friends. Complete with a pix of a naked woman gracefully partially hidden being tossed clothing.
Some of the doctrine made sense, much did not.
I do not expect to be resurrected. However, I do expct to be reborn. I have come to believe in reincarnation, and I have had some awesome experiences that has opened up many past memories, which I have been able to post-memory document with historic and archeological information.
I don't believe Yeshua knew who he was until he went to live with the Essenes (during his missing years) when he experienced ceremonies helping him to discover who he was and what his purpose was. Sorry, I have noting to back this theory.
Bren
The concept of a "soul" separate from the body is pure ignorance of science. Damage to the proper spot in your brain will make your lose your sense of continuity and identity. (Amnesia) The "soul" was primitive man's best attempt at explaining what makes living organisms move. We now know that there is no-one at the controls. There is no "little-man" pushing buttons or operating a switch board. God is an attempt to imagine someone at the universal control console. There is no one out there at the controls. There is no one in "here" that is controling you or me.
But resurrection of the body if accompanied by some memory input would be adequate to get you going. Our memories are really not all that important. Our brains are organs for dealing with changing situations. Think about how much you've forgotten already. Where is that little person that sat in the story circle in kindergarten. You can only remember a few paradigmatic incidences from your life.
In this age of information theory we realize our "personal" story could be transferred to a few chips. Basically the promise is that if you are real good the information will be kept in storage. Personally, if I die I wish my clone a happy life. If you subscribe to the stuff coming out of quantum theory there are probably an infinite number of "you" in parallel worlds - each living a somewhat different life because of the random factors "they" encounter. In other words there is no shortage of whatever "you" are.
Everlasting life is an "ego"- tistical concept. Of course we like it because it is the "ego" that defends existence. However, the reality sets in as you see that your body rots with greater acceleration after you have served your reproductive duties. Immortality is a great dream and society through religion uses it to keep us all in line.
Its a new body and only a recording of your thoughts that was in Gods memory that is put into this new body......how can it truly be the same person?
Has the Watchtower ever tried to answer this question? The question of personal identity between before and after resurrection?
--VM44
I wasnt bothered if it was truly "me" as long as I had my memory and my body was at least 30lb lighter
It didnt like the thought of going round naked until I was purrrrrrrfect!
