Comments You Will Not Hear at the 1-16-05 WT Study (Abbreviated)

by blondie 36 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • M.J.

    As to having your guard up when it comes to substance-abuse programs, I would agree, based on what I've read. (I'm agreeing with the WTS??) Releasing the Bonds mentions that some of these programs sometimes over-extend their influence into the realm of cultlike mind control. So JWs would do well to be aware of the criteria involved...Sounds like good supplement material to this article, does it not?

    What if this was the law [stoning of gluttons and drunkards] today at the KH? How many people would have to be stoned each week?

    LOL! Would the WTS have ever gotten off the ground?

  • BrendaCloutier

    Well done, Blondie. Thank you!

    Not too bad for one of their typically fluffy articles. They never mentioned the disease aspect. The AMA declared it a disease in 1956 and as far as I know the WTBTS has never acknowledged this. At least they aren't shunning recovery as they used to.

    Any amount of alcohol that unduly impairs your judgment and dulls your thinking ability is too much for you personally


    Problem with this is, many alcholics have a very high tolerance to alcohol. They don't get tipsy, nor are their any signs that they are drunk, after so many drinks that would know a "normie" to the floor.

    Wish they'd get their statistics to look more like real statistics; like the fact that over 90% of alcoholics die because of the disease (cirrosis and liver cancer are a little more rare in an alky than suicide, auto accident, deadly falls, diabetes, pancreatic cancer, esophogeal hemorrage, etc.).

    They also failed to mention that a woman alcoholic attains late-stage alcoholism faster than her male counterpart because in a woman the stomach produces less acids and ensymes are destroyed quicker.



    of the alki in recovery thank you AA class

  • blondie
    In the truth a problem shared is not halved but gossiped.

    In the WTS, that is so true, hamsterbait. I used to tell the elders that I would rather them announce it from the platform rather than have one elder tell his wife who them spreads it around the congregation. All it takes is one elder on the body who tells his wife everything. I knew one wife that eavesdropped on all her elder husband?s calls.

    Hi, MJ

    As to having your guard up when it comes to substance-abuse programs, I would agree, based on what I've read.

    It is good to be careful but the hidden message that most JWs take away from the WTS cautionary statement is not to get involved in any treatment programs?that they are all bad?and that is the message the elders carry to the congregation in general. I know an elder that suggested to one struggling brother that he look into an appropriate rehab program and his fellow elders raked him over the coals saying that every program endangered a JW?s spirituality because of the association with worldly people. If that reasoning were applied to deciding to have an operation, what JW could have an operation?I don?t know of any hospitals staffed exclusively by JWs.

    Just as it is prudent to evaluate hospitals and doctors for an operation, rehab programs should be evaluated too.

    Hi Brenda,

    The AMA declared it a disease in 1956 and as far as I know the WTBTS has never acknowledged this.

    I still think they see it as a character flaw.

    As to allowing treatment, I think it falls into the same category as saying that JWs can vote, that it is a conscience matter. It is window dressing for non-JWs but behind the scenes, treatment is frowned upon by the majority of elders.

    Here is the only comment on alcoholism as a disease. What do you think?

    *** w84 10/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***


    Do Jehovah?s Witnesses regard alcoholism as a disease?

    Many people speak of addiction to alcohol as a disease, according to a broad definition of that word. Researchers, physicians and people assisting alcoholics are among these, for many of them use terms such as "disease," "sickness" or "illness" in describing or defining alcoholism. For instance, Science Digest of May 1984 states:

    "Alcoholism is still a disease in search of an explanation. Once considered a disorder of the mind alone, it is now thought to have genetic and biochemical components as well . . . Recent findings support earlier evidence from Sweden that alcohol abuse often ?travels? within families.?"?Page 16.

    There is, though, reason for caution about viewing alcoholism as a disease. Some alcoholics, and others, have been inclined to excuse their addiction to drinking or overdrinking, claiming that they really cannot help it, for it is a disease. Others seem to feel that if an alcoholic has a biological predisposition toward the problem, or his body has an impaired biochemical response to alcohol, then he cannot be viewed as morally reprehensible.

    Christians, however, are concerned primarily with God?s view of matters

    . His view is righteous, balanced and permanent, in contrast to medical and psychological positions that may come into vogue for a time, only to be altered or abandoned later. Jehovah?s perfect Word forthrightly condemns drunkenness, listing it among the things that can keep someone out of God?s Kingdom. (Galatians 5:19-21) Romans 13:12, 13 advises: "The night is well along; the day has drawn near. Let us therefore put off the works belonging to darkness and let us put on the weapons of the light. As in the daytime let us walk decently, not in revelries and drunken bouts, not in illicit intercourse and loose conduct, not in strife and jealousy." Even if there may be a biological predisposition in certain cases, leading some to view it as a medical problem or disease, Christians recognize the moral aspects of it.

    The apostle Peter wrote to Christians: "For the time that has passed by is sufficient for you to have worked out the will of the nations when you proceeded in deeds of loose conduct, lusts, excesses with wine, revelries, drinking matches, and illegal idolatries. Because you do not continue running with them in this course to the same low sink of debauchery, they are puzzled and go on speaking abusively of you." (1 Peter 4:3, 4) Peter was imperfect himself and understood the human condition. Yet he did not say that all Christians had turned from excesses with wine except those who had some genetic or biological predisposition to problems with alcohol. In fact, the apostle Paul said that some Christians formerly had been fornicators, thieves, drunkards and extortioners. But no matter what had led them to such moral problems, they could and did change. Paul said: ?You have been washed clean, you have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.??1 Corinthians 6:9-11.

    So whether alcoholism is spoken of as a disease or not, we must hold to the high and good standard set in God?s Word. Anyone who has developed an addiction to alcohol?whether through lack of self-control, ethnic or family influence, or even due to a biological quirk?should work to put it behind him, perhaps availing himself of sympathetic help. (See Awake! of July 8, 1982, pages 4-12.) Thus "he may live the remainder of his time in the flesh, no more for the desires of men, but for God?s will."?1 Peter 4:2.

    I can say that my time with Adult Children of Alcoholics (ACOA) provided me with the thinking and tools and support to leave the WTS. I still get out my ACOA books when my thinking needs readjustment.


  • stillajwexelder

    In paragraph 9 - the one about not even having one drink if we are driving -well it has become a congregation directive - many comments and both the WT Study conductor and PO as good as stated that if anybody had just 1 drink and then drove there would be diciplinary action - so looks like a new organizational directive. The PO then stated that the CO had mentioned it at the eders and servants meeting at the last CO visit - so looks like it is straight from Brooklyn

  • blondie

    It's about time, stilla. I have been "complaining" about the lack of action or support for years, 30 years to be exact. I watched the PO drink himself into an early grave because everyone tiptoed around the issue.

    Unfortunately, that doesn't mean they will get the support and help they need. I can remember one elder discouraging a brother from getting outside help. I pointed out to him that the people in that group were available 24/7, said that if the person called them, they would drive to wherever they were and stay with them until they felt they could stay away from the alcohol for that day, drive them home, talk with them. Provide meetings to go to 15 hours every day. Well, that elder was not willing to put that kind of time into it and conceded that this group was able to give more than he could.

    as good as stated that if anybody had just 1 drink and then drove there would be diciplinary action

    Good luck, enforcing it. The biggest offenders have been elders and MS, and their families. I have seen elders condone underage drinking as long as it was in their home and the parents were there....

    I think that edict is pretty extreme since even Caesar's laws in the US are not that strict. What about wine at the Memorial? Designated driver? 1 drink and then drive home 3 hours later....? Rules, rules, rules, rules

    Still love ya, stilla


  • blondie

    More comments about this WT study

  • heathen

    I still think it's a disease of the mind . The WTBTS certainly never did any research on the issue besides what's in the bible and I know the apostle peter did not do any research papers on the subject . The human body does turn alcohol into a substance called morphine . With what science has learned , especially after the vietnam war , is that morphine is a very addictive chemical and has withdrawal symptoms when people try to break the addiction . I've heard that alcoholics exsperience something similar . In instances where homosexuality is concerned I believe that people want to excuse that behavior and blame alcohol . They must have been thinking about sex before they had one stinking drink . Alcohol seems to be everybodies favorite excuse for stupidity . LMAO nothing new with that .

  • stillajwexelder

    I do emphasize this was just our KH in the Miodwest -however, the PO and WTSC did state the CO discussed with Elders and MS at last CO visit because the Society really think it is a problem (I assume amongst the Elders/MS particulalry). I think this is a case of WATCH THIS SPACE

  • Room 215
    Room 215

    A most insightful WT summary Blondie; great work. I must say that I'm a bit conflicted as to whether alcoholism is the disease or the symptom of a person whose self image has been battered relentlessly to guilt over ``haven fallen short,"``not doing more" and self-loathing over being no more than ``a good for nothing slave," seduced by the ``carrot" of an elusive New World tantalizingly just over the horizon but which never seems to arrive. Yet the WT seems focused on the superficial, i.e. the appearance of things, suppressing/stifling the symptoms while ignoring the disease, the root cause.

    Just had a conversation with a friend of many years, a fellow fader, who has since moved a long distance from me and who I seldom see but phone once in a great while to ask how thing's are going. When I inquired as to how his in-laws were (siblings of his wife; all elders or married to elders), he said that they were on a cruise together, and that he was invited but declined. The reason: his discomfort with their non-stop drinking.

  • blondie

    heathen, even AA says that the problem is 15% physical and 85% mental. But that does mean that person has 15% more to deal with than the average person. AA makes no excuses for themselves. Every person can succeed in tackling their alcoholism if they realize that they can't do it on their own.

    stilla, I remember when my husband came home and said the CO said that any elders found going to R-rated movies would be removed. That was 7 years ago, the elders still go to and rent or buy R-rated movies and not a one has been removed.

    In many ways congregations operate as dysfunctionnal alcoholic families where non-alcoholics cover for the alcoholics, live in denial, and even enable the alcoholic. I remember one BOE could not intervene directly with an elder and tell him it was because of his drinking they were curtailing some of his responsibilities. Instead they said it was because he was overweight by 100 pounds. I had to tell him it was because of his drinking.


    I must say that I'm a bit conflicted as to whether alcoholism is the disease or the symptom of a person whose self image has been battered relentlessly to guilt

    But then every person who is "guilted" does not become an alcoholic. Remember being a drunk is not the same as being an alcoholic. I know people who are alcoholics who haven't had a drop for 30 years, yet they are still an alcoholic, recovering. An alcoholic will tell you that they are only one drink away from trouble. Alcoholics don't need a "problem" to drink. With alcoholics it is not how often you drink but how you drink.

    Love Blondie

Share this