Funerals

by dothemath 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • dothemath
    dothemath

    Last year, a faithful sister passed away in a neighboring cong.

    She did have some disfellowshipped relatives............I guess everyone assumed they wouldn't show up. But they did (which they certainly have every right to do).........and it seemed it caused quite a stir.

    One elder, who stayed to visit the family, ended up having to apologize to the entire congregation. (Despite not having "said a greeting", or "eating" specifically with the disfellowshipped relative.)

    It makes me think of Jesus words to the Pharisees..........."1/10 of mint, etc..........yet forgot about justice and mercy and faithfulness". (Matt. 23: 23,24) I suppose this kind of thing happens rather often.

  • candidlynuts
    candidlynuts

    sadly it happens too often. one brother in our hall was df'd for shooting at a car load of hoodlums that had just stabbed his son, his mother died while he was df'd. i actually heard several people saying " its a shame she died thinking her son was dead in jehovah's eyes, and if he wasnt df'd she'd have lasted longer"

  • Gill
    Gill

    It's sickening , isn't it.

    It's not a funeral that this reminds me of but a very very sad case of a young sister who became pregnant by an elder in our Cong. At first they were only reproved, but when it became obvious that they were still seeing eachother, he was helping to support her and get her to her hospital appointments, and his wife was unable to have children, they were both disfellowshiped.

    Then the young lady became very ill and the baby was born prematurely. The child died a few weeks later.

    Congregations reaction, 'It's a blessing from Jehovah!' Believe me I heard this many many times and it sickened me.

    Some comments were that 'it's better that the baby died, it would have been awkward for the elders wife to be in the same hall as his illegitimate child.'

    And, 'far better that the baby died. It would have been a shame for Jehovah's name.'

    The young sister carried on 'in the troof' for a few years and then faded. I think about her a lot.

    The Elder is reinstated but I can't help feeling sorry for him too.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Gill perhaps they were thinking of this account and applying it improperly to that situation:

    ***

    w86 3/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers

    ยท After David and Bath-sheba sinned, why did their son have to die, since Deuteronomy 24:16 and Ezekiel 18:20 say that a son is not to die for his father?s error?

    David and Bath-sheba were both married persons when they committed adultery and she became pregnant. Their adultery was a grave sin punishable by death under God?s law. (2 Samuel 11:1-5; Deuteronomy 5:18; 22:22) So if God had permitted them to be dealt with by humans under the Law, the son developing in her womb would have died with its mother. But Jehovah chose to handle their case differently, which "the Judge of all the earth" certainly had a right to do.?Genesis 18:25.

    When confronted with his guilt, David acknowledged: "I have sinned against Jehovah." Then God?s spokesman told David: "Jehovah, in turn, does let your sin pass by. You will not die." (2 Samuel 12:13) David was shown mercy because of the Kingdom covenant. Moreover, since God is able to read hearts, he must have evaluated the genuineness of David?s repentance and concluded that there was a basis for extending mercy to David and Bath-sheba. Yet they would not escape all the deserts of their error. They were told: "Notwithstanding this, because you have unquestionably treated Jehovah with disrespect by this thing, also the son himself, just born to you, will positively die."?2 Samuel 12:14.

    God ?dealt a blow? involving their child to whom they were not entitled; the boy became sick and died. A person today might tend to focus on the child?s death and feel that a harsh judgment was executed. However, it is good to bear in mind that had the adultery been handled by and proved before human judges under the Law, all three (David, Bath-sheba, and the son in her womb) would have lost their lives. Viewed in that light, God?s permitting two of them to survive was merciful. Furthermore, at this late date we do not have all the facts, such as information about the health of the infant immediately after birth. We can, nonetheless, accept God?s handling of the matter, confident that what he did was impartial, wise, and righteous. Even David later acknowledged: "As for the true God, perfect is his way."?2 Samuel 22:31; compare Job 34:12; Isaiah 55:11.

    That is consistent with David?s reaction after he heard God?s judgment. While the child was sick, David grieved and fasted. But once death occurred, David appreciated that the matter had ended. (2 Samuel 12:22, 23) So, trusting God?s judgment, David proceeded to comfort Bath-sheba (now his legal wife), assuring her that their marriage relationship would continue. Later Solomon was born to them and became David?s successor.

    God?s handling of that case need not be viewed as conflicting with Deuteronomy 24:16 or Ezekiel 18:20.

    As part of the Law, God directed: "Fathers should not be put to death on account of children, and children should not be put to death on account of fathers. Each one should be put to death for his own sin." (Deuteronomy 24:16) Those guidelines were for Israelite judges handling legal cases. The judges could not read hearts. They were to deal with each man on the basis of his own conduct as established by the facts.

    Similarly, Ezekiel 18:20 observes: "A son himself will bear nothing because of the error of the father, and a father himself will bear nothing because of the error of the son. Upon his own self the very righteousness of the righteous one will come to be, and upon his own self the very wickedness of a wicked one will come to be." This was primarily referring to adults. The context speaks of a son who witnessed his father?s wickedness but refused to share in it; instead, the son carried out Jehovah?s judicial decisions and walked in His statutes. Such a son would be preserved when his father died.?Ezekiel 18:14-17.

    It is undeniable, though, that children can suffer consequences because of their parents? actions. Parents who are wasteful or foolish may bring poverty on the whole family. Or imagine the effect on children if a parent is sentenced to prison for criminal activity. Even calamities that God justly brought on Israel for their wickedness affected the children of the time. (Deuteronomy 28:15, 20-32; Ezekiel 8:6-18; 9:5-10) Conversely, God urged his people: "You must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring, by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice and by sticking to him; for he is your life and the length of your days."?Deuteronomy 30:19, 20.

    Hence, the experience of David and Bath-sheba should emphasize to parents that their conduct can greatly affect their children. If parents ?are in fear of God?s name, the sun of righteousness can shine forth? to the blessing of the entire family.?Malachi 4:2.

  • Gill
    Gill

    Quite probably, Blondie. But people's attitude was awful. The girl had no support from anyone and now sympathy for her loss. To be reinstated she had to go through all that palava of coming to the meetings every time and being ignored by all. She hadn't suffered enough?

    Nasty people.

  • robhic
    robhic
    "However, it is good to bear in mind that had the adultery been handled by and proved before human judges under the Law, all three (David, Bath-sheba, and the son in her womb) would have lost their lives ."

    Not to be overly ugly here, but, in all seriousness, would that have been such a bad thing? Except for the death of the innocent child, that spoiled, egotistical, mysoginistic, adultering fool David would have been no great loss in my view. He got too many chances.

    There was a lot of special treatment in David's case. I also wonder if some (all?) of these stories are cases of tweaking after the fact. Changing the facts to look good for David the "teacher's pet"?

    All of this stuff makes me ill when viewed with some distance, skepticism and logic.

  • Ticker
    Ticker

    Just a comment on the opening thought. I think this is so dogmatic and pharisaic. Relatives have every right to be at a family members funeral no matter who they are. Apologizing cause some members were disfellowshipped and attended, this is such BS! Since when did they get so trivial over such matters, stupid manmade biblical redtape. I think the congregations and the org is so petty over such issues, just like the pharisees stumbling others and humiliating ones over such stupid doctrines. This is another reason I dislike organized religion so much, always full of meddling gossiping, manmade doctrinal garbage. Just my 2 cents. lol

    Ticker

  • franklin J
    franklin J

    They are so pompous....

    when one of my non JW cousins died; another JW ( pompous elder) cousin was asked to say the grave side ceremony.

    I attendend with both of my sisters. All of us had been pioneers at one time. The JW cousin said " some of us here will see you again in the resurrection".... it was plainly said to embarass my two sisters and myself. All we could do afterwards was laugh at the pomposity and arrogance of this elder cousin.

    He is still an elder.

  • Ticker
    Ticker

    Wow Franklin, thats quite the comment from that elder. I guess their god now and can judge us condemmed. Haha they will get such a surprise when they realize that a publishing agency cant spare their own life. lol Just sheep all of them blind sheep, taking what they want from the bible and tickling each others ears. Sad to see that their are such arrogent people though. Makes you sure glad to be free from all their entangling doctrinal webs.

    Ticker

  • upside/down
    upside/down

    robhic,

    The way Jehovah dealt with David is precisely why I have hope for myself. David was just like you and me (maybe even worse). And yet Jehovahs still dealt with him. Justice demands that ultimately He deal with all of us the same way.

    Blondie,

    I'm increasingly impressed with your thoughts on many things, I hope it's not an insult but when I read some of your comments I feel like I wrote them.

    u/d

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