Not love, not lust, but something in-between

by logansrun 26 Replies latest social relationships

  • logansrun

    On Christmas Eve I got the chance to get together with an old friend, also an ex-Witness, who was visiting from New York. His life has been something of a hedonic treadmill and only recently has gotten off of it to find, as I like to call him, the Sensitive New Age Jesus. Well, anyway, we got on the subject of sex and relationships. He mentioned to me that a girl, who is a friend but not a "girl-friend", has made it known to him that she would like to lose her virginity and was wondering if he would like to assist her acheive this goal.

    Perhaps it's the whole "Jesus" thing, but my friend is up in arms about this. He has tried to reason with her that it would be just straight sex and nothing more and that she surely wants it to be "special", meaning with someone that she "loves." I protested to him that this is not a good idea. I feel it's better to lose one's virginity -- and experience sex play for awhile -- outside of any type of commitment.

    But, I ask, Could there not be some middle-ground between an "empty lustful" sex experience (as one might have with a prostitute) and a deeply committed, "special" sex relationship with someone you "love"? (do notice my quotation marks -- they are there for a reason)

    I believe that the concept of "love" is far more complex than most people imagine. Foolishly people place "Love" on some Platonic mountain, believing that one "love" is superior to all others. The sexes, but most especially women, it seems, wait for "That Special Someone" to come along with which they will live happily ever after. It's almost as if people engage in black-and-white thinking in this matter. Either you are "in love" or not. Any sex outside of "love" is automatically inferior and is denigrated as "just" lust. I must believe this is a false dichotomy.

    More and more I think humans are naturally polyamorous -- and monogomous. We want the best of both worlds -- the pleasures of many-loves and the security of One. But, by this simple fact, polyamory wins out. If you are paradoxically an absolutist and a relativist, the relativist subsumes the absolutism by neccessity. One can envelope the other.

    Humans seem to reject the facticity of life and their biology. We live in a large world where one is capable of loving different people, in varying degrees, for different reasons and in different settings. I had a girlfriend once that I said I "loved" although I never, ever would want to have a committed relationship with her. I loved her for "her" in the historical moment we found ourselves in at the time. Some might have called it pure "lust" but there was an element of love in it. I loved the way she looked, her humor, even her cry-baby whineiness at times. I have loved others too.

    So, I believe there are different "types" of love, and it is impossible to place one "love" as superior to another. They're just different, that's all. Just as my "love" for the music of Miles Davis is differerent and cannot be compared with my "love" for baseball, so it is with men and women. Instead of creating some sort of absolutistic dogma about love and sex, why not recognize the differences, enjoy them and fulfill them?

    My advice to my friend was to enjoy the "specialness" of the moment with the virgin and to make it known that, although the "love" they will enjoy will not be Absolute and Special in some sort of metaphysical sense, but to revel in the special love-lust-moment they can share together.

    Waxing philosophically,


  • Balsam

    I am with you, why not enjoy the sex within their friendship, understanding it just as it is. Being in love is not a necessary to having a satisfying sexual experience. And that is from a mature woman's perspective. After all you can love a person romantically and deeply and sex may be a tiny part of it.

  • Fe2O3Girl

    I think that far too much emphasis is put on virginity. Saving yourself for "the one" sets you up for disappointment, as most people in normal society don't settle down with the first person they sleep with. Splitting up is so much more painful when you make losing your virginity some sort of magical sacrifice.

    Far better to do it for the first time with someone experienced, that you like, and don't expect to ride off into the sunset with.

  • prophecor

    Once again, 1/2 a ton of heavy thought there Bradley.

    If your partner is of any redeeming moral character and quality, and it appears that he must be, as most men would jump at the chance to de-flower a true virgin without even a thought, much less a second thought, well she could surely leave herself open to be plucked by someone of a lot less.

    Your partner should jump for it. I mean, how often in ones life is anyone going to be in a position to experience a virgin in the first place? Those who do, may not hold in proper esteem the awesomeness of such a moment.

    Tell your buddy to drop his drawers, and his high moral reasoning, not that there's anything wrong with that, and jump her bones!!!

  • Nosferatu
    But, I ask, Could there not be some middle-ground between an "empty lustful" sex experience (as one might have with a prostitute) and a deeply committed, "special" sex relationship with someone you "love"?

    There's two things in between. You could be in a [edit] buddy relationship where the two see each other on a regular basis specifically for the sex. Then there's a short term relationship where you just date the same person for a short amount of time (ie 1-2 months).

  • Bubbamar

    I agree with everything that has been said. And if I were in your friend's shoes I would still worry that the girl would "fall in love" anyway - regardless of his disclaimer. I mean it is going to be an experience that makes an impact on her. Plus it is a lot of pressure on the dude - I mean, what if she doesn't like it. If she does like it - she's going to want him to keep doing it - then she'll "fall" for him.

    Maybe he doesn't care about that - but if he wants to preserve the friendship - it might be something to consider.

  • JustTickledPink

    Another female opinion here, but you are always going to remember the first time. If she's already waited to the point she is talking to someone logically about devirginization, then I am assuming she's not 15 and he doesn't drive his father's station wagon. If she's waited past her early teen years, then I can guarantee you that she has high expectations. She might even think in soap opera romance terms, meaning she wants candles, possible roses delivered the next day, some sweet pillow talk.

    Your idea of "straight sex" and nothing else basically boils down to, let's do it get it over with, no one spends the night, and I'm not going to call you the next day and coo into your ears about how wonderful it was. That has the potential of devastating her and scarring her idea of what sex should be. She can tell him all she wants that she just wants to get it over with, but she has picked him out, there is a reason. If she wanted anonymous sex to get it over with... she'd go pick up a guy in a bar. She is talking from her head in guy terms, but probably is feeling it with her heart in girl terms.

    If he wants to make it special and do it, then it's up to them.... but I don't believe she isn't going to want to pursue a relationship if she's already taking it to the sexual level. Although there is always the possibility that she feels most comfortable with this guy and yes, she just wants to get it over with, so in the future when she meets the guy that she wants to date, fall in love with, she won't be terrified out of her wits.

    As for being "in love" and the term love, for sure it has many different meanings and many different forms. I love my dog, I love my husband, I love my new kitchen pots that were a gift. I love my girlfriends and would do almost anything for them. I have loved other men in my life, I have been in love before. Every single experience of love teaches us something new. I don't have children, but parents tell me that the most pure form of love is the love you have for your children. I don't know.

    I have been in love and loved a person that I knew I didn't want to spend my life with. I have been in love with people who were horrible wrong for me but felt so horribly right at the same time. I think in the end you can only listen to yourself and come to your own conclusions, but maybe as I did you will come across someone that you not only love but feel absolute contentment with. I think contentment is what leads to monogamy, not being "in love." It's just as easy to fall in love as it is to fall out of love. Once you find absolute contentment, it's hard to even think of letting anyone else into that perfect equation. There isn't room for more than two.

    When you get there, you realize you've reached your destination and the sex is above anything you've ever dreamed. Physically of course everyone has the same parts and they fit together the same way, but that indescribable intimacy is there and you feel as if all the questions you've ever had in life have been answered.

  • JustTickledPink

    Oh and about the question, yes there is that middle ground of sex between meaningless and getting butterflies of love and infatuation. It just depends on what you want, drive-thru sex, sit down chain-restaurant sex, or home cooked grourmet meals kinda sex.

  • Country Girl
    Country Girl


    If the woman YOU LOVED with all your heart and sould slept with ANOTHER MAN, how would you feel? There's your answer.


  • czarofmischief
    If the woman YOU LOVED with all your heart and sould slept with ANOTHER MAN, how would you feel? There's your answer.

    Heather Graham sleeps with other men all the time, no matter how much it hurts me...


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