my take...

by teejay 74 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  squinks

  Teejay,

  My take on your take,

  I understand that you feel it wasn't all bad. If I understand you feel that despite the bad-you wouldn't trade the good. You praise, and rightfully so, the good witnesses who were a part of your life. But what about them? Have they labored their whole lives for a lie? Would they still have been good and caring if they had not been Witnesses? You are assuming that they were good because they were JW's. There are many people who are out there doing their part to make the world a better place who are not doing if towards dreams that will never come true for them or anyone else.

  They were doing it to help their "brothers and sisters" get by until the "new system" not to make the actual world we live in a better place. Not to be rude, but are you paying if forward? Are you out there making sacrifices for others like the ones that were made for you from the simple lives of those Witnesses? If not, then you learned nothing from their sacrifice. Their sacrifice was toward one end - to keep you as a witness, not toward teaching you to make the world a better place, because this world would not be here to continue to help, this world is meant for destruction, not salvation.
• 

  under74

  squinks- I'm not sure you are being fair here. Saying a JW only helps out or is nice to another person only because they are trying to keep that person a JW just isn't true. There are plenty of JWs with large hearts and aren't doing nice things just in order to "get by." If this were true than every ex-JW is guilty of not having a heart until they left the WTS? I think you maybe speaking about your own experience but it's not true of everyone.

  I can relate to what you say but I don't think it's true of every JW I've ever met. I don't think you have to have the mindset of making the world a better place in order to do right by those around you.
• 

  outbutnotdown

  under74,

  I thought squinks assessment was pretty damn good. Sure there is the exception to the rule, but I have had experiences myself and been told by many other people stuff like this:

  Bro,Supernice - "You know Brad, we really want you to come back...........(a long, pleasant conversation ensues where Brad becomes convinced that they really want to help.... so)

  Brad - "You know Bro Supernice I appreciate your concern. I want to tell you about my problem so that you can help me......(tells problem).

  Bro Supernice - "Well, Brad, that was the reason that you were df'd so you have to get over that problem yourself. You're on your own until you can prove you're repentant and get re-instated", and walks away.

  I think that might be what squinks was refering to.......... when the line is drawn in the sand..... their line, by the way, that's it..... the love ends. That's my take on it anyway.

  Or how about a conversation with my sister about my wife (now ex-wife) cheating on me, etc...... and she says she can't talk to me. I'm pleading for my emotional life at this point......... and she says, without batting an eye, "Don't take it personally, Brad, I can't talk to you only because you're df'd"

  That is just plain ignorance. Just because they don't realize that it's cruel and hurtful doesn't make it any less so.

  Brad
• 

  under74

  I understand Brad. And squinks touches on a lot of what I dealt with as well BUT I think it's unfair to generalize, or say that all JWs are good at instances only because of this or that...what I mean is many are under control but most are still human, right? And I think that there are some good hearted humans even in the WTS....they may be hard to spot but I was raised in the Society and I don't think I was ever heartless.
• 

  logansrun

  maybesbabies,

  You are a totally jaded individual.

  Overgeneralization. No one is "totally" anything. Furthermore, what you call "jaded" I call "been around the block." Try thinking about the JWs instead of just feeling about them.

  I'm sure stopthepain knows that he is the only one who can fix his/her life. Why do you harp on someone who needs to vent and greive? I'll be goddamned if I will be little Mary Sunshine, "framing the negative in a positive light". "Oh, I think being molested was a good thing now!"

  Obviously, you have missed my point. I made very clear that you can't magically turn a situation into a completely positive thing, only that there are often -- not always -- positive ramifications that can proceed from a negative event. Nothing is completely good or bad, even though many ex-JWs feel their Witness experience was the latter en toto. Molestation and being raised a JW have nothing to do with each other, even if you were molested by a Witness. (And, the fact is, the vast majority of Witness children are not molested.)

  If someone is hurting they need to go through the grieving process.

  Yes, and thinking logically about the situation instead of irrationally throwing a tantrum will help the recovery process quicken.

  If you have, good for you. If you haven't, isn't that what this F*&KING board is for? Why don't you back off and save your self righteous psychoanalysis for someone else?!?!??!??!

  What I've done has nothing to do with psychoanalysis. In fact, it is really the opposite of psychoanalysis. But, I can see you are having your own little kin-ip-chin fit so I guess there's little I can probably do to discuss this cool-headedly with you.

  stopthepain,

  listen bradley,my avatar was meant to be funny-----maybe your the one reading a little to deeply into things,and thank you for the phsyco-analysis,its truly appreciated.

  See above comments regarding psychoanalysis.

  You obviously get off on figuring people out,so good,you have me all worked out.I overcompensate for years of being mind fucked,sorry.

  Well, you're right. You've overcompensated. And, no, I don't have you "all figured out." It would take a lot more than reading some of your comments to do that. But, from what I've read, you seem to display some very irrational thinking about your experiences (as is normal for most ex-JWs) and I'm trying to give you another angle.

  Framing is also a term used in baseball when the catcher tries to make a ball look like a strike.

  Yes, so what? Since we're not dealing with a "this or that" -- "ball or strike" , "good or bad" -- subject your illustration is irrelevant.

  Please tell me how Ive exagerrated the negative-everything I write is true about my experience.you cant exagerate the truth.

  Of course you can exagerate the truth. I drive a car -- true statement. I drive the best car in the world -- exageration.

  I will admit you are slick when you type behind your computer,i'd like to see how slick you are if you were in the same room as me right now.

  by the way,how long did it take you to think up all those big words to berate a stupid and obviously unstable person as myself?just curious.

  All kidding aside (and I am kidding about the emoticons), I know pretty much where you're coming from. You can look at this situation better and I hope you do. Did you go to the library yet?

  All best,

  Bradley
• 

  stopthepain

  every message board needs a person like you.you intellect is truly dizzying.im mystified by you.

  all best

  jon

  ps-you will never be able to give me anything-other than a new and exciting post to laugh at
• 

  outbutnotdown

  under74 said,

  And I think that there are some good hearted humans even in the WTS....they may be hard to spot but I was raised in the Society and I don't think I was ever heartless.

  I agree with you on that too. Mindless? Yes, I agree completely that I gave my mind up to them for all intents and purposes, but never heartless.

  Brad
• 

  wasasister

  Interesting post, TeeJay. Wherever did you get the idea?

  My JW upbringing was pleasant and like many here, I credit the person I am with who I have been. I like who I am, so why should I look back with anger or bitterness at where I came from?

  Yes, the JW's of the 60's and early 70's were far less judgemental than current. Most of the younger couples in the org today take the dogma like American Catholics - nod their heads and go to R-rated movies anyway.

  Many have been comparing JW's with Catholics, as if Catholic upbringing were so warm and fuzzy just beacause Father O'Mally down at the parish is a nice guy. Come on! The Catholics have more blood on their hands than JW's EVER will and have divided way more families.

  ALL religions teach BS. ALL give false hope of living forever. MOST teach everybody who doesn't accept their God will die. Armageddon/Hellfire, which is worse?

  Standing out in the hall during birthdays gave me courage. Do I care WHY I stood out in the hall? Nope.

  Selling magazines made me good at sales. Do I sell today? Sure, and so do each one of you every time you go on a job interview.

  What brought all of this up in the first place was someone suggesting that a non-JW who allowed a child to attend a few meetings was an ufit parent. That's blatant BS.

  TeeJay, isn't it interesting how the same post can draw such different responses depending on location?
• 

  undercover

  In my experience, most young JWs engage in the above anyway. I'm SHOCKED at the things all the other JW young-in's were doing while I was reading my Bible at night. I went to a JW New Years Eve party last year. There was plenty of "judicial offenses" going on.

  I've come to the conclusion that I was an abnormal Witness. I really lived it.

  I can share that sentiment somewhat. At least as a teenager and early 20-something. I was exemplary compared to some of the other JW teens. I got into a little trouble here and there but I never did any of the "biggies". I even obeyed to the point of not watching R-rated movies. I thought I was a normal JW kid fighting the same battles as other JW kids. Later I learned just how free-spirited many of my peers were. Wow. I was a geeky prude compared to them. All night parties with underage drinking and drunkfests. Drugs. Sex. Even theft and robbery.

  Later in my later 20s I finally started living a little and had some fun, but still tried to be a good JW for the most part. If I had too much fun, I just didn't tell the elders. For some time I felt that I would pay for my non-confessions at Armageddon, but now I'm glad that I never confessed anything to an elder. Not that I was never in a JC meeting. I just never confessed and now there is no record of my "indescretions" anywhere.
• 

  squinks

  Alrighty then,

  Thanks out! One point I tried to make was that JW's do not have a corner on the be nice market. Nice people who care about others exist in and out of the JW's. We may not be out there "trying to make the world a better place" with every move me make, but when we are kind or helpful or caring it can inspire the object of our kindness to do for others and that makes the world a better place.

  Did you ever take a walk in a park and pick up some litter and throw it in the trash? Well if you did you made that park a better place with a simple act. Same with kindness. If you are having a bad day and someone smiles at you it can make all the difference and you may be inclined to pass that along.

  When JW's are nice, it tends to be for their own. And when they are nice to others it is for the specific purpose of "giving a witness." That point gets pounded into the heads of JW's. When I was in my caring for others was always toward giving a witness. When I left I discovered that I like caring about people because I like caring about people. Imagine my surprise!

  And then I discovered that most people "in the world" are the same way. That discovery laid bare the great lie! You know the one, that this world belongs to Satan and is meant for destruction. You who praise the wonderful values you learned as a Witness-you probably would have learned them anyway, only without the superior attitude that comes with it.

  We all had it-the superior attitude. How else could we have possibly believed that we would live and the world would die for its wickedness?

  My experience upon leaving the JW's, the shunning by family and beloved friends has robbed me of my ability to form close friendships. I have my husband and children and casual friends, but even after more then 15 years I must have a deep fear of being hurt again, because I just don't enjoy friendship anymore, not like I did. I try so hard to get that back, the enjoyment of friends, but so far I just cannot manage it, too painful.

  That is the JW legacy for me. I cannot praise any values learned as part of a lie, not when I found out that the very same values are alive and well in the world I once feared as the form and function of some mythical evil called Satan. Yes there is evil in the world, but there is also evil in the JW organization.