UN Library Card Excuse.

by Englishman 17 Replies latest jw friends

  • Englishman

    A coupIe of nights ago, I was sat watching an old video-clip of The Village People singing "YMCA"on TV. The thought occured to me that the WT most likely have a down on the YMCA (they have a down on most things), so I searched YMCA on my WT Library CD.

    Well, that was interesting all right. However, one part of the article reminded me of Brooklyns excuse for being party to the UN as an NGO. Remember how they said that they only joined so that they could use the library? They were a part of the UN just so they could have a library ticket, so it was no big deal? The membership was therefore excusable?

    I think you'll soon make the same connection that I did:


    Questions from Readers

    Is it true that for religious reasons Jehovah’s Witnesses may not become members of the YMCA (Young Men’s Christian Association)?

    Yes, that is so. We have long recognized that the YMCA, though not being a church as such, is definitely aligned with the religious organizations of Christendom in efforts to promote interfaith.

    In September 1885 the Watch Tower took this position:

    "Alas for the Bible-rearing practiced in the Y. M. C. Associations! They are completely under the control of the sectarians, by whom they are supported. Though professedly non-sectarian, professedly controlled by no creed but the Bible, they are more creed-bound than others, since they are bound by all the popular creeds."—P. 6.

    Later the underlying religious purpose and interfaith efforts of the YMCA were mentioned in the September 1964 issue of Kingdom Ministry, used by Jehovah’s Witnesses in one of their meetings.

    Many persons think of the "Y" simply as a social organization that offers various services, such as a swimming pool, facilities for athletic training and a place for clubs to meet. Commendable as some of these provisions may be, it is important to bear in mind that the YMCA was founded with a distinctly religious basis. This was set out at a World Alliance in Paris in 1855. The main part of that official statement (called the Paris Basis) reads:

    "The Young Men’s Christian Associations seek to unite those young men, who, regarding Jesus Christ as their God and Saviour, according to the Holy Scriptures, desire to be His disciples in their faith and in their life, and to associate their efforts for the extension of His Kingdom amongst young men." (Italics added)

    While in some countries churches may not be the YMCA’s main source of revenue and while membership is open to persons of all races, nationalities and religions, the fundamental religious objectives of the "Y" cannot be ignored.

    ‘But,’ some may sincerely wonder, ‘is religion or interfaith really an aspect of the YMCA?’ The answer must be "Yes." Though religious features may be de-emphasized in some branches of the YMCA, all local "Ys" are still expected to comply with the Paris Basis. Further, note comments from the 1975 YMCA publication Christian and Open:

    Anza A. Lema, associate of the executive committee of the World Alliance of YMCAs, wrote:

    "From its very foundation, it has always looked to the Bible for inspiration and guidance. In many ways its role in the world has tended to complement that of the church without claiming to be a congregation itself. . . .

    "But it is more than just an instrument through which Christians put their moral ideals and teachings into practice as they serve society. Most supporters of the YMCA look at it as a place where real fellowship with one another through Jesus Christ is experienced. . . .

    "In humbling itself and trying to relate its structures and services more directly to the community, it will be carrying out more effectively its role of service and priesthood for its neighbours. . . . "

    Matthias Dannenmann, general secretary, National Council of YMCAs of Germany, said:

    "From its very beginning the YMCA was no doubt meant to have only Christians as members and on the other hand there was the missionary obligation towards those members who could not yet profess Jesus Christ. . . .

    "The YMCA is a big offer, but only in as far as Jesus Christ is working in it as Living Saviour. We should do our very best not to drive out this Lord but as we carry him in our name we should personally use every chance of meeting him in the YMCA and of continuously extending this possibility to other people."

    Officials of the organization have pointed out that they feel that more attention needs to be given to the religious orientation of the YMCA. Dr. Paul M. Limbert, from 1952-1962 secretary-general of the YMCA’s World Alliance in Geneva, Switzerland, wrote:

    "It may readily be granted that too few Y.M.C.A.s take full advantage of the opportunity for ecumenical education inherent in these informal contacts among Christians . . .

    "When questions about different forms and beliefs arise among young people and adults, the wise leader takes advantage of the occasion to guide discussion from superficial argument to deeper dialogue. . . .

    Leaders in both churches and Y.M.C.A.s need to recognize more clearly the essential nature of a lay ecumenical Christian movement. A Young Men’s Christian Association is not a church nor a substitute for a church. . . . Yet the Faith and Order commission of the British Council of Churches declared in a carefully worded statement in 1959 that the Christian Associations are ‘valuable auxiliaries’ of the churches, organs of their own missionary activity."—The Christian Century, June 10, 1964.

    And The Christian Century of August 29, 1969, in its article "Happy Birthday, Y.M.C.A.!", stated:

    "Realizing that the Christian identity of the ‘Y’ has often been drowned in swimming pools, its leaders are engaged in recovery of theological awareness and ecumenical vigor. . . . It may be that the greatest challenge to the Y.M.C.A. is to reclaim its religious heritage for the robust assertion of a new ecumenism among laymen in local communities. The Y.M.C.A. just might be able to do things for the Christian churches which, in their parochial rigidities, they seem unable to do for themselves."

    Consequently, there is ample evidence that the YMCA originated with religious objectives and continues to have such to this day.

    In joining the YMCA as a member a person accepts or endorses the general objectives and principles of the organization. He is not simply paying for something he receives, such as when buying things being sold to the public at a store. (Compare 1 Corinthians 8:10; 10:25.) Nor is his membership merely an entry pass, as when a person buys a theater ticket. Membership means that one has become an integral part of this organization founded with definite religious objectives, including the promotion of interfaith. Hence, for one of Jehovah’s Witnesses to become a member of such a so-called "Christian" association would amount to apostasy.

    Some individuals have on occasion not become members but have paid a onetime admission fee, viewing this as simply paying for a commercial service available. Even in this regard it is wise to consider whether this course will adversely affect the consciences of others.—1 Cor. 8:11-13.

    Jehovah’s Witnesses, of course, appreciate a balanced amount of healthful exercise. The Bible says that "bodily training is beneficial for a little." Yet it adds that "godly devotion is beneficial for all things." (1 Tim. 4:8) That does not mean devotion to a triune God. The Bible does not teach that Jesus is "God" in a trinity, as is taught in many of Christendom’s churches and as is still included in the "Paris Basis" of the YMCA.—1 Cor. 11:3; John 17:3.

    While interfaith efforts and ecumenism are popular today, they are not upheld by the true God, who told his servants: "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. . . . ‘Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves.’" (2 Cor. 6:14-17) Also, Jesus plainly said that the Almighty must be worshiped "with spirit and truth." (John 4:24) Most definitely that does not mean joining in a religious cause with persons holding beliefs contrary to what the Scriptures teach. (Rev. 18:4, 5) Thus, it is because of their understanding of what God expects of true worshipers, and of what the purposes and direction of the YMCA are, that Jehovah’s Witnesses may not become members of that organization.

    Further, it is well to give thought to the fact that in virtually all the years of the YMCA’s existence, it has not acted in harmony with the spirit of Isaiah 2:2-4, as can be noted from the following historical facts:

    "YMCA services to the armed forces began, in the United States, with the Civil War, and it continued giving service through all wars thereafter."—Encyclopædia Britannica, Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 835, 1976 ed.

    "In the Civil War, only ten years after its beginning in Boston, and before there were buildings or secretaries or financial resources, a total of 4,859 ‘delegates’ were recruited and deployed and over six millions of donated funds used for the temporal and spiritual needs of soldiers. . . . In World War I, the American Y.M.C.A. assumed an enormous responsibility for service at home and abroad for which a staff of 25,926 was required with expenditures of more than 167 million dollars. In World War II, the Y.M.C.A. became one of the organizations that founded the United Service Organizations [USO], joining as a group of private religious organizations from Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish faiths in an agreement with the Federal government to provide civilian recreational, welfare, and religious services to men in uniform and to war-production workers in communities adjacent to military establishments."—The New Funk & Wagnalls Encyclopedia, Vol. 36, pp. 13,467, 13,468, 1952 ed.

    "YMCA activities for members of the armed forces began during the Civil War (1861-1865). These services increased with each later war and reached their fullest development during World War II (1939-1945). The YMCA maintained more than 450 clubs for the Allied armed forces."—The World Book Encyclopedia, Vol. 21, p. 477, 1978 ed.

    This kind of service under the name "Christian" was certainly not in fulfillment of Micah 4:3.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    Hah! 2 faced or what? Bastards!


  • freedom96

    The WTS will justify anything and everything they do to anyone.

    There simply is no excuse for their actions.

  • ColdRedRain

    Not to mention this number.

    *** NEW GENESIS: Shaping a Global Spirituality ***

    *** Chapter 6: Prayer and Meditation at the United Nations page 45+following***

    by Robert Muller

    Scans Available (from 1984 Edition): Title Page (20kb); Copyright Page (48kb); Page 45 (90kb).

    Prayer, meditation and spirituality at the UN are fascinating subjects. All major world religions are accredited to the United Nations as non-governmental organizations. For example, no less than twenty-four Catholic organizations are represented at the UN. Several of the world's religious leaders have visited the international organization. Most memorable were the visits of His Holiness Pope Paul VI during the General Assembly in 1965 and of Pope John Paul II in 1979. Many religions have special invocations, prayers, hymns and services for the United Nations. The most important examples are those of the Catholic, the Unitarian-Universalist, the Baptist and the Bahai faiths. It is a common practice of the Unitarian-Universalists to display the United Nations flag in their houses of worship. So does the Holy Family Church, the parish church of the UN, with its international reliquary and its many religious services and activities catering to world peace and to the international community.

    When it comes to the United Nations proper, one can obviously not say that it is a spiritual organization. How could it be otherwise? For the UN is the creation and mirror of governments, most of whom have 'secularized' themselves, i.e., separated spirituality from their daily lives and preoccupations. Nevertheless, prayer and spirituality play an important role in the United Nations. It is a moving experience, for example, to witness the minute of silence for prayer or meditation at the opening of the yearly General Assembly, when men and women from all nations center their minds and souls on the job to be done and when at the end of the Assembly a similar minute of silence permits them to reflect on their achievements and failures. Thus, the world's first universal gatherings of nations are placed under the symbol of prayer or meditation. Also, there are many delegates and world servants whose cultures do not make any distinction between spirituality and public service. Then there are those who are deeply attached to their faiths or for whom the United Nations is a new form of spirituality and ethics, while they remain faithful to their respective religions. Some delegates are known to meditate in a place of worship before speaking in a UN assembly. One of the greatest orators ever at the United Nations, Professor Belaunde from Peru, meditated on his speeches in St. Patrick Cathedral. Then we have the UN Meditation Room, which is visited by hundreds of thousands of visitors each year. We have also a UN Meditation Group led by an Indian mystic. One could tell several moving stories of the spiritual transformation the UN has caused, to the point that this little speck on earth is becoming a holy ground. For example, the rational, intellectual economist Dag Hammarskiöld found God at the United Nations and inspiration for his work as a world servant in the mystics of the Middle Ages. Towards the end, his Markings overflow with spirituality and mysticism.

    Then there was U Thant, the man from the Orient, who saw no difference between life and religion, who held that spirituality was the highest of all human needs and virtues. The Western distinction between secular and spiritual lives was totally incomprehensible to him. He found in such cleavage one of the principal causes of the world's conflicts, tensions, injustices and disarray. For him, every single moment of life called for prayer, virtue, reverence, gratitude and total communion with humankind and the universe. He was of Buddhist faith, a religion which does not believe in God, and yet he was one of the most spiritual persons I have ever known.

    There are many also in the United Nations for whom the cooperation of all nations towards common goals and values is a kind of new religion, a supreme path or way. They see in the UN the same perennial human dream which has obsessed all great religions and philosophies, namely, the establishment of a peaceful, just, happy, harmonious world society. But there is one difference: while in the past all religions and philosophies were born within specific local, cultural contexts, today we are witnessing the birth of a new philosophy, ideology or ethics which originates from a central place of synthesis where all dreams, aspirations, claims and values of humankind converge. This is new. It constitutes one of the greatest and most exciting attempts at total human fulfillment in the entire evolution of the human race. There has never been anything like it. It is a magnificent story, the beginning of a profound world-wide transformation and transcendence of the human society, a new paradigm of the coming age. True enough, it is as yet a fragile and incomplete story, for the UN largely reflects the priorities and dominant values of our time. For the poorer countries these are food, health, shelter and education, without which there can be no decent life. First one must live, then one can philosophize. In the Western countries too, material, scientific, technological and intellectual achievements generally still occupy the highest priority. They live in an age of rationalism which believes that everything can be explained by scientific, rational means, and this is reflected in the United Nations. But increasingly there are voices which point to other values. U Thant, in particular, was the first great prophet who reminded us of the moral and spiritual dimensions of life and who firmly advocated the development of our moral and spiritual values in order to catch up with rapid technological and scientific advances. For him, the solution of many of our individual, national and international problems rested in the practice of truthfulness, integrity, tolerance, love and brotherhood. And beyond these moral virtues he felt that each individual carried in himself a fundamental question regarding our relationship with the universe and eternity. Hence the paramount place he accorded to spirituality. In his memoirs he wanted to show how spirituality and philosophy should lead, inspire and guide politics.

    This point has not yet been reached in the United Nations, but year after year one can observe how moral and ethical issues are being brought to the world organization. A host of codes of ethics and conduct are being elaborated at the UN. The Charter itself is one of the boldest codes of ethics ever drafted for the behavior of very powerful institutions: armed nations. Although its rules are all too often broken by its members, it nurtures progressively a better behavior, a greater understanding and an improved general moral political atmosphere. Our scientific and industrial age has yielded incredible progress to the human race and we should be immensely grateful for it. But this success perhaps led us to believe that material achievement and intelligence were the apex of civilization. There no longer seemed to be any need for ethics, purity, morality, compassion, love and spirituality. This unnecessary poverty of our age is now being increasingly recognized. Humanity needs also to probe the immense possibilities of its heart and of its soul. This is the great new challenge which has been raised very forcefully by a younger generation tired of war, hatred, hypocrisy and injustices.

    I have a Christ in my office. My colleague next door has a statue of Shiva. U Thant had a Buddha in his room. Each of us, be he from North or from South, from East or from West, has his own way of expressing faith in the human race and destiny. When a conflict breaks out any place on the globe, we are all in agreement that it must be stopped, that people cannot be allowed to kill each other, that life must be revered everywhere, that the human person is the supreme care of all our efforts. So, despite its imperfections, the UN is becoming one of the greatest and most beautiful sagas of modem times. King Paul of Greece saw it as a "cathedral where we can worship what is best in each other." Pope John Paul II said that we were the stonecutters and artisans of a cathedral which we might never see in its finished beauty. I would not have dreamed that when I joined the United Nations a third of a century ago. The scope of the UN has widened in every direction, owing to the imperatives of a new global, interdependent world. But people do not really know how vast and vital its activities are. The tapestry of its work encompasses the total condition of humankind on this planet. All this is part of one of the most prodigious pages of evolution. It will require the detachment and objectivity of future historians to appraise fully what happened in the last third of our century and to understand what the real significance of the United Nations was.

    Meditation, prayer, dream, hope, vision, faith, guidance, foresight and planning all go hand in hand in so many ways. The tall Secretariat building of the UN is an edifice of human hope and dream jutting into the universe and receiving from that universe increasingly clearer messages. Perhaps the time has come when we will understand the full significance of our cosmic evolution. Year round people from all creeds and cultures gather at the UN to design a better future for the world. And they will succeed. Our children will know a better future, a more peaceful world, an unprecedented fulfillment of individual human life and consciousness.

    Little by little, a planetary prayer book is thus being composed by an increasingly united humanity seeking its oneness, its happiness, its consciousness, its peace, its justice and its full participation in the continuous process of creation and miracle of life. Once again, but this time on a universal scale, humankind is seeking no less than its reunion with the "divine," its transcendence into ever higher forms of life. Hindus call our earth Brahma, or God, for they rightly see no difference between our earth and the divine. This ancient simple truth is slowly dawning again upon humanity. Its full flowering will be the real, great new story of humanity, as we are about to enter our cosmic age and to become what we were always meant to be: the planet of God.

  • stopthepain

    great point englishman.never thought of that.I remember someone was "stumbled" in the hall,because they saw a brother walking into the YMCA.how childish on that persons part,and what a bunch of hypocrites the society is.

  • undercover

    That's exactly why the library card excuse doesn't work.

    If I join the YMCA, not for Christian fellowship, but because they have the most reasonable priced gym or pool available for use in my area, and it's found out by the elders, I will be DFd for this action.

    The WTS uses the lame excuse that they became an NGO so as to get a library card. In doing so they, accept or endorse the general objectives and principles of the organization. Nor is ... membership merely an entry pass... Membership means that one has become an integral part of this organization founded with definite religious politcal objectives, ... Hence, for one of Jehovah?s Witnesses the WTS to become a member of such a so-called "Christian" a politcal association would amount to apostasy.

    When a JW uses this excuse(if they even know of the association) I refer them to this article.

    This one act of kissing up to the UN is enough to damn the WTS and show any reasonable thinking person that they are hypocritical liars.

  • melmac

    Englishman, You made my day! Excellent!

  • BrendaCloutier

    I still say you don't go to a whorehouse just to get a kiss....


    Psst: Peace begins with me - pass it on!

  • sf

    Excellent informative thread.

    Now it all makes sense as to why our membership as kids was abruptly stopped by my mom right after she decided this was going to be HER new religion.


  • Gordy

    I know this is an old thread but was referred to it from elsewhere.

    On reading Englishmans points on the YMCA and WT.

    I was struck by the small paragraph under the one he highlighted.

    Some individuals have on occasion not become members but have paid a onetime admission fee, viewing this as simply paying for a commercial service available. Even in this regard it is wise to consider whether this course will adversely affect the consciences of others.?1 Cor. 8:11-13.

    So in the WT's saying that they joined for a "library card" is that not the same as as the above about paying an admission fee to usea YMCA facility? Did the WT think about whether their course would adversely affect the conscience of their members?

    Talk about double-standards!!

  • Sunspot

    ** Did the WT think about whether their course would adversely affect the conscience of their members?

    Evidently the WTS thought that their "alliance" with the UN would never be discovered---so they didn't worry about the effect it would have!

    They resigned their 10 year membership as soon as the article about this came out. How typical of them.

    THEN they had to cook up some kind of explanation for the JWs that would hear about it, the devious slimy worms!

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