To those that believe in a god; Please help me believe (page 4)

groovycat.

Hands up - I don't know what Occam's Razor is.

Info?

Xena

Nonetheless, shouldn't something as important as the very nature of existence and your eternal future be more than just the wild personal dreamings that go on in your brain? Shouldn't it be a dialogue?

Why? Lets face it Bradley what are the odds of us discovering the truth of these matters? Will any of us know what happens after death until we actually die? To me everything isjust speculation. I have formed my own personal beliefs about this based on my own personal experiences and these are my truisms (is that a word??) I enjoy some discussions on them and other belief systems so as to add to my own knowledge...and it allows me to re-evaluate my beliefs, which stay pretty flexible. But I guess I don't understand the underlying need to prove or know something that seems to me so elusive.

logansrun

On Occam's Razor see the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_Razor

I might add -- and, please forgive me -- that when people say they don't have the "need to prove" their beliefs to others what they really mean is they are afraid others might show them the holes in their beliefs. It's a great defense mechanism.

Bradley

logansrun

All right Xena. You have that right.

Bradley...."remember I'm not necessarily a bastard even if I sound like one at times"

Xena

ROFL Bradley I suppose you can believe what you like but the bottom line is I'm happy with where I am at. I don't have to prove anything.

PS I know you're not a bastard...most of the time

AlmostAtheist

You guys are great, I really appreciate your efforts in what must certainly appear to be a fruitless discussion. I assure, you it isn't. All your posts together are forming a very good view into your minds on this subject, it has already been immensely helpful.

Someone has probably already mentioned it but "Occam's Razor" is a terribly complicated, long-winded discussion that can be summed up as "The simplest solution is usually the correct one." You also hear it stated as, "When you hear hoofbeats behind you, think horses -- not zebras". OR has let me down often enough that I don't give it much credence, but that's the idea. (Admittedly they usually *are* horses...)

I'll reply more when I don't have a baby in my hands! ;-)

Dave

missy04

AlmostAthiest,

I could give you reasons, but you already said you don't believe those ones.

Here are a few things right off the top of my head. They are not mostly the reasons that I believe in God, but they sure help (me anyway).

This may sound familiar, (The Witnesses actually told me this) and I can't remember exactly where it was in (their) Bible so I suppose I could be wrong on this, but I remember a verse where the Bible actually said the earth is round, whereas humans didn't actually discover that for a while...

My Christian Grandma watched a documentary...where Moses was supposed to have divided the sea and walked through with all the people. There is a video of cameras going under the sea and actually seeing tons and tons and tons of carriages and other things under the water there where they settled after the sea closed in on the army. (If you are interested in this at all, I will ask her what the video is called and where to find it. I would like to see it too.)

Miracles....things that COULD be explained by sceptics....it all comes down to how much you do or don't want to believe. Little things that have happened to me or my family. I was just telling a few people in the chatroom last night how my parents and I took a vacation to WI last summer. My mom and I were driving back from an Indian reservation in the middle of nowhere on the highway when all of a sudden the back hitch to our van popped open, and she pulled over to close it. Right when we were pulled off the highway, the drivers side gasget broke in half. The only thing really holding the wheel up at that point was the weight of the van resting on it. The policeman who drove us back to the cabins said that if we had been driving it wouldn't have turned out too well. It has never before or after popped open on it's own like that while we were driving. We hadn't even opened it that day at all.

How about all the prophecies?? It's amazing to me how right on they all are. I was reading the Bible the other night about end times prophecies. It mentioned that people would be perplexed by "strange tides." I think that applies very well right now.

That's just some stuff off the top of my head...

~Sarah

Kenneson

Also of interest is this observation in the wikipedia article:

"In the philosophy of religion Occam's Razor is sometimes used to challenge arguments for the existence of God. None of these applictions have been considered definitive because the competing assumptions are not (and perhaps cannot be) precisely defined. Also, it should be added that the principle is only a guide to the best theory based on current knowledge, not the "truth.' "

logansrun

missy04,

My Christian Grandma watched a documentary...where Moses was supposed to have divided the sea and walked through with all the people. There is a video of cameras going under the sea and actually seeing tons and tons and tons of carriages and other things under the water there where they settled after the sea closed in on the army.

You know, when I was your age I was as naive and foolish as you. So, there is hope.

B.

missy04

You know, when I was your age I was as naive and foolish as you. So, there is hope.

Another miracle is how before I became a Christian I would have felt the need to insult you back

To those that believe in a god; Please help me believe

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