The Global Flood

by coldfish 290 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • a Christian
    a Christian

    Toreador,

    You wrote: I have a hard time observing the reality of the holy spirit guiding people to understanding. Too much false doctrine and too many religions, each one claiming spirit direction and understanding.

    I don't think that the Holy Spirit has helped all of the people who now claim to have received such help. Neither do I believe those who have been helped to understand some things correctly by the Holy Spirit have been helped by the Holy Spirit to understand all of the things they now understand.

    In other words, some people arrived at all of their beliefs without any help from God. And some people arrived at only some of their beliefs with His help. That leaves room for an an awful lot of false doctrine.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Especially fascinating to me in Humphrey's article is what a poor reader "a renowned Cambridge University physicist" can be. What a 5-y.o. child immediately gets he doesn't.

    Next, what was Cinderella's shoe really made of?

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    a Christian

    Credit where credit is due a Christian. Thank you for your apology. I won't have to refer to you as intentionally deceitful if you're not, so if you refrain from claiming prophetic significance for rounded figures (without explicitly explaining this), and stop making false claims for significance (that even though the orbital ratio wasn't 400, it was twice a month).

    So, since you say I misrepresented what you wrote (by missing the word "If"), are you saying that you feel there is a possibility of, "guidance from god in writing the Bible" ? Just curious.

    Of course it is possible, but so far I feel people have failed to demonstrate that the Bible is inspired, or have allowed their standards of proving inspiration to slip to such low levels that one could take the same standards for proving inspiration and 'prove' hosts of books were inspired.

    And, provided you remember to not make mis-statements about what I have said, or statements about nature ("always exactly 400 X") that by their inaccuracy bolster your argument, I will not have any reason to point out your divergence from the standard of behaviour a Christian should follow.

    And as for me saying you fail to glorify god... errrr... where is the glory to god in this thread that you have bought a Christian?

    You've insisted that you are part of an elect of those equip pend to see the sign, yet manipulate figures to make the sign a sign.

    You reduce god to a game player, who although capable of making 'proof' doesn't, but instead decides only a small elect will be able to discern it.

    You never once address how the unfairness of this is explicable when we are told by your holy book we are made in god's image, and humans around the world are united in their appreciation of unfairness as being wrong.

    I have a firm assurance that, if there is a god, he is not as petty as your interpretation of a book written by a bronze-age 'goatherd' makes out, but would be the personification of love.

    I tend to think that when Carl Sagan made that estimate he took into consideration that there are many new stars just now forming, and others which are just now dying, which may not now be able to be seen by us even with telescopes

    No, you tend to think whatever will support your claim; the average orbital distance is 389, that is close enough to 400 for you. Same with Sagan; he makes an estimate decades ago, and because it fits your theory you will cling to it no matter what science has done between times.

    There is a clear pattern here a Christian.

    Look at the date-of-birth thing. You have failed to convince ANYONE other than yourself of the validity of your 400x claim, you have made several people annoyed with you due to your convenient approximations, and then, having failed to modify your argument in anyway, you switch to birth-date.

    This is called switch and bait, in argumentative terms.

    Back a JW against a wall on an issue they will eventually have to just insist they are right on, and they will switch and bait.

    Now, you are not a JW, but you switch and bait. Your interest in NOT continuing discussing 400x is apparent in your failure to defend your theory about recurrence of eclipses, the number of years between Adam and Jesus, and all the other holes, like the "the ratio s 400x twice a month" nonsensence.

    Narkissos

    Next, what was Cinderella's shoe really made of?

    That has to be one of the best one-liners I've seen in years!

  • a Christian
    a Christian
    I wrote: I tend to think that when Carl Sagan made that estimate he took into consideration that there are many new stars just now forming, and others which are just now dying, which may not now be able to be seen by us even with telescopes

    You responded: he makes an estimate decades ago, and because it fits your theory you will cling to it no matter what science has done between times. The "400 Billion" number was taken from his book, "The Demon Haunted World", first published in 1995. Ten years does not "decades" make. Besides, I am aware of no figures more recently published which contradict Sagan's figure.

    You wrote: Look at the date-of-birth thing. You have failed to convince ANYONE other than yourself of the validity of your 400x claim, you have made several people annoyed with you due to your convenient approximations, and then, having failed to modify your argument in anyway, you switch to birth-date. ... This is called switch and bait, in argumentative terms. I have discussed the date of Christ's birth at some length because Alan F challenged my "5 BC" date. You wrote: Now, you are not a JW, but you switch and bait. Your interest in NOT continuing discussing 400x is apparent in your failure to defend your theory about recurrence of eclipses, the number of years between Adam and Jesus, and all the other holes ... In order to "defend my theory", in which "the number of years between Adam and Jesus" according to the Bible, is just as important as the 400s "in the sun, moon and stars", I must firmly establish both the date of Christ's birth and the date of Adam's creation. Narkissos, Evidently, you find it hard to believe that "a renowned Cambridge University physicist" can also be a Christian. You may find the web site from which that article was taken to be of interest. http://www.asa3.org/ Science in Christian Perspective The American Scientific Affiliation (ASA) is a fellowship of men and women in science and disciplines that relate to science who share a common fidelity to the Word of God and a commitment to integrity in the practice of science. It is no "Young Earth Creationist" site.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    A Christian,

    Evidently, you find it hard to believe that "a renowned Cambridge University physicist" can also be a Christian.

    Not at all! What always amazes me is the literary dullness of many bright scientific minds, Christian apologists or sceptics alike. A lot of Christian readers, regardless of their education, easily understand such stories (Eden, the Flood, the Magi; should I mention Balaam's donkey or Jonah's fish?) as tales -- see the references at the beginning of Humphrey's article for a similar Christian scholarly appraisal of Matthew 2 (the keyword being midrash). Never mind.

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Narkissos said:

    : Especially fascinating to me in Humphrey's article is what a poor reader "a renowned Cambridge University physicist" can be. What a 5-y.o. child immediately gets he doesn't.

    What exactly do you mean? I haven't read Humphrey's article yet.

    AlanF

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    AlanF,

    What I mean is: with a minimal intuitive or inductive insight into the literary genre of the text, the average reader doesn't even think of taking the star of Bethlehem as an object of scientific astronomy.

    Now if there were Cinderella apologists, we'd have a hard time convincing them that the Cinderella story is not meant to be historical.

  • one
    one

    A Cristian

    a while back I asked:

    Whats so important about the sign then?

    did i miss your answer?

    my question is the context that that of all "saved" humans only some see the sign, as you mention.

  • one
    one

    nark,

    Now if there were Cinderella apologists, we'd have a hard time convincing them that the Cinderella story is not meant to be historical.

    Yes, if it was part of a religious beleif.

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Thanks, Narkissos. Since the biblical text is explicit that the Magi were led to Jesus by the 'star', it's obvious that the 'star' cannot have been an object situated at an astronomical distance from the earth. I've long wondered why people bother to even try to wiggle the text into saying something about an astronomical object. They should just leave the obvious meaning alone and say that it's a miracle. It's like trying to find natural causes for the tens plagues of Egypt.

    AlanF

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