I recently went to a "pentacostal church" with my neighbor who has been a devout pentacostal for 30 years. She has been asking me for years to come to her church since I left JW's so I finally went with her a few Sundays ago. I must admit I was nearly scared "speechless". People were running around the church and a few members were banging their heads on the floor and foaming at the mouth. I could not believe what I was seeing. My neighbor kept telling me that it was alright because they had the Holy Ghost in them and there was nothing wrong with their behavior. I looked at her as if she had lost her mind and as I got up to leave the church 2 pastors were blocking the door with the collection plate and would not let me leave until I put some money in the collection plate. After demanding them to get out of my way I left and promised myself that I would never step foot in that church again. My neighbor got an attitude with me because I left and she felt that I was rude for doing so. I told her how could she sit in a church service where people are acting as if they are on LSD. I thought the JW's were bad but this took the cake. I am curious to find out how many of you posters have noticed '"cult-like"behavior from born-again christians and what were the behaviors or practices that made you uncomfortable. My friend at work told me that her church bought the minister and his wife a rolls royce for their birthdays. It is funny because my co-worker can barely pay her rent and she also takes the bus to work but yet she will help buy her minister and his wife rolls royce. This is why many people have washed their hands to churches today. What are your thoughts on this subject?
What "cult-like" practices have you noticed with Born-Again Christians?
by booker-t 27 Replies latest jw friends
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Outaservice
I'm a former JW and 'born again Christian, and the things you describe are not typical of most born again Christians but an abberation of a few. I find it strange and quite uncomfortable too. Non-Christian groups many times also have 'cult-like' practices and it is apparently a part of human nature to do weird things in 'group-think'.
Outaservice
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M.J.
I grew up in a pentecostal church and I would definitely say that your post sounds unusual and over-the-top even to someone with my background. There are definitely people that get caught up in emotionalism in such situations, and go overboard. And there are definitely plenty of fakers out there, without true convictions that just like to go through the motions, as with any group. But even what you are describing, to me, is not cultic. Fanatical perhaps, but not cultic. Despite their eccentricities, penetcostals as a whole are not slaves to an organization of men. Thier allegiance is to Christ, not to a particular man or an organizational go-between (with the exception of "the Potters House", who are quite cultic). But in any group you do have certain elements of "groupthink" or potential for certain leaders to exercise too much control over their local flock. So I think you gotta examine situations on a case-by-case basis. I'll attack an organization that deceives and take advantage of others any day, but I take issue with your attack on people for their particular beliefs or practices. (btw, I'm not Pentecostal)
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Undecided
Old Rutherford had it right,"Religion is a snare and a racket." Although it does good things for many people, I think it has caused more harm over the centries than any good it has done. Religion is used by wicked men to control people many times and you really have to be careful of your choice of religion. I think a personal religion is better than groups who belong to a national sect. Just my thoughts.
Ken P.
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logansrun
The term, "born-again" means different things to different people. If by "born-again" you are refferring to fundamentalist Christians (ie, most "evangelicals") then I think that many do in fact engage in cultish thinking. Absolutistic thinking (such as, "You must accept Christ or you're going to Hell!" and "the Bible is the infallible and literal Word of God!") definitely is an aspect of any cult, whether or not the cult is "organization" in nature or not. Most conservative Christians, I hate to say, engage in such cult-like thinking all the time.
B.
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stm345
A quirky English TV presenter called Louie Theroux presented a program about a year ago from America where he visited one of these Evangelist churches (cant remember the denomination) and exactly what youve described happened there. At the end of the service, a young woman seemed to be so debilitated by the whole thing, she couldnt get up to walk out. Theroux was very concerned for her health, but those around her said it was the Holy Spirit!
I just remember thinking at that time...I cant believe this is how God wants us to act, as if we are on some hallucinogenic drug. Is this how he attracts his followersto the church? Is this natural behaviour? Notice I said natural, not normal. It reminded me of the story, the emperors new clothes.... One day they might just see how completely ridiculous they look.
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M.J.
Ok another problem here is the word "cult" also means different things to different people. I hold to the view that a "mind control cult" engages in coercive pursuasion. Here is part of a passage which attempts to define this from factnet.org:
It is possible to distinguish dangerous groups which use coercive persuasion from peaceful persuasion groups by de-emphasizing their coincidental similarities and focusing on the methods of coercive persuasion. The beliefs of any group are no clue to whether it uses coercive persuasion.
2.) WHAT ARE THE CRITERIA OF A COERCIVE PERSUASION PROGRAM?
To decide if a coercive persuasion program was responsible for an observed change in behavior, it is necessary to determine a) if the subject individual held enough knowledge and volitional capacity to make the decision to change his ideas or beliefs, and b) if that individual did in fact adopt, affirm, or reject those ideas or beliefs on his own.
All that should be examined is the behavioral processes used, not ideological content. For example, one does not have to examine the truth or falsity of communism to find that an individual was subjected to a program of brainwashing. One needs to examine only the behavioral processes used in the "conversion." It is not necessary to question the beliefs of an individual's faith or have them explain it rationally.
Each alleged coercive persuasion situation should be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. The characteristics of coercive persuasion programs are severe, well understood, and they are not accidental. -
logansrun
There's no question that "cult" can mean different things to different people. I think that the ideology the group espouses is just as critical as whether or not they deceptively recruit people. Hell, I've been deceptively recruited into forking over money to salesman for things I don't really need, somehow I don't look upon that as being as detrimental as believeing in a totalistic belief system which includes the roasting of humans -- FOREVER!
Bradley
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Satanus
In the 2 yrs following my departure from the wt, i also saw some strange actions by born againers. It does seem to be a group mind altering thing. I doubt that those are cultic, although sometimes a pastor of a particular church can become overly controling, and thus his church can become cultic. Generally, people are free to leave the churches, or move from church to church without retribution of any kind. Perhaps a cult sign, as has been mentioned, is that one must accept/believe in/worship jesus, or go to hell.
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lonelysheep
I know the pentacostal church near me carries on the same way. I don't care where it is, I'm not sticking around to see people catch the holy ghost or whatever they want to call it. That was never cool w/me. Making you pay before leaving is ridiculous, but to me expected from churches. That along with the "be with us or you will not be saved" bullshit is cultish.