World War 1 and 1914

by Schizm 83 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Neo

  The eschatological predictions in the 19/20th centuries need a proper historic contextualization.

  Apocalypticism tends to rise in times of social/economic/political upheaval. In late nineteenth century, it was not hard to see that a great war would come up sooner or later; it wasn't a hard prediction to make, specially in view of the arms race in Europe. The great war was just a matter of time.

  Even some political analysts themselves at the time tried to predict the year for the war outbreak. It's not difficult to understand, then, (1) that a great number of fiction novels were written in those years speculating about when and how the war would come and (2) that many religious people tried to pinpoint an year for the war/end-of-the-world in an outburst of date-setting prophetic speculation. There were so many date-setters in those years that eventually someone would get it right.

  Ironically, Russel himself knew there would be a war coming up (he just needed to read the newspapers) and specifically stated that the future war had nothing to do with the end of the Gentile Times in 1914!

  Neo
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  Schizm

  Well Schizm, if you check Russell's earliest literature he was saying that the fall of Jerusalem was 606 BCE not 607...that should have brought them to 1915...but they made the mistake of counting a zero year...so they were saying 1914...When WW1 occurred and ended with no big A, they changed their eschatology.

  While I don't doubt that that's true, the fact still remains that "1914" was the year that was made notorious by Russell in his writings. Come 1914 and World War 1 broke out. Russell himself was impressed with that having happened ... to him it happened right on time, although he would soon realize that it didn't fulfill all of what he expected to happen.

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  Schizm

  schizm,

  what do you want to hear? that this was an amazing prediction and that coincidence cannot possibly be the explanation? fine! believe it if that floats your boat!

  One thing for sure that I'm NOT looking for is an explanation based upon prejudice. Prejudice is known to have blinding effects. I don't consider myself to be considering it from a prejudiced standpoint. I try to REASON on the matter.

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  Nosferatu

  Okay, let's say that this is not a coincidence. Let's say this really is a bible prophecy that was fulfilled. Now, it was Russell who came up with the 1914 date (we'll ignore the fact that he got the idea from that Barbour dude). Now, it has been 90 years since the 1914 date, and about 80 years since Russell cacked (sorry, can't remember what year he cacked). Rutherford took over, changed most, if not, all of Russell's doctrines, and the Bible Students split off to continue with Russell's teachings. Does all this make the JWs still correct, even though they hold almost none of the doctrines Russell created?
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  iiz2cool

  Even if 1914 was not a coincidence, the JWs have been wrong about everything they've said and done since then.
  
  Walter
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  Schizm

  Ironically, Russel himself knew there would be a war coming up (he just needed to read the newspapers) and specifically stated that the future war had nothing to do with the end of the Gentile Times in 1914!

  Are you just kidding? Surely you must be. Did not Russell think a "great upheaval" was to take place in 1914, as based upon his understanding of the 2520-year theory (Da 4). And wasn't such 2520 years considered to be the period of the Gentile Times, which was thought to end in 1914?

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  Schizm

  Even if 1914 was not a coincidence, the JWs have been wrong about everything they've said and done since then.
  
  Walter

  E-watchman will no doubt concur with all that you've said, except that he accounts the WTS as also being wrong in their assessment of 1914.

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• 

  Realist

  schizm,

  allright...if you throw two dice and both land on 6 do you attribute this to a higher power or to mere chance?

  in the 20th century (100 years) there were MANY events to which a certain meaning could have been attributed. to list a few:

  1914 WWI starts

  1918 WWI ends

  1929 black friday

  1939 WWII begins

  1945 WWII ends

  1990 end of USSR

  = 6 events

  compare this to 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975, 1999

  = 5 predictions.

  the prob of not hitting one of these events is thus: 94! * 95! / (100! * 89!) = 0.73 = 73%

  thus you have a prob of 27% of hitting one of the events. compare to this the prob of hitting two 6 with the dice = 1/6 * 1/6 = 3%

  so which is more likely?
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  Schizm

  Okay, let's say that this is not a coincidence. Let's say this really is a bible prophecy that was fulfilled.

  Actually, I'm inclined to think that it was NOT prophecy fulfilled. Even so, it's somewhat striking that such a great war took place inside a year that Russell had pointed to for so long, and which could so easily be misinterpreted to be the fulfillment of Matthew 24:7 some years on down the road.

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  iiz2cool

  I think the WT was wrong on 1914 too. They've spewed out so many dates, one of them was bound to host an event of note. It doesn't mean they have any special insights.
  
  They've done with dates what an old buddy of mine used to do when trying to pick up women. He used to stand on a busy street and ask passing women if they wanted to f*ck. His attitude was "sooner or later someone has got to say yes."
  
  If the watchtower keeps on making up dates, sooner or later something of note will happen, but not necessarily what they're expecting.
  
  Walter