I need some answers. Had talk with mother but feeling extremely frustrated
I'm so sorry for what you are going through. Hassan says as long as they are breathing there is hope. I have doubts too - my mom is so far gone.
On the 1914 issue my favorite point is that they had to change the masthead on the Awake magazine in 1995. Is your mom aware of that? From what I understand they did it quietly so some did not even notice. I'll try to find the quote for you -- but the changed "the creator's PROMISE." It just blows me away that JW's don't even care about that. Why call it a promise if its really just a typo?
Your mom at least listens a little....maybe you have planted a seed or two. Prayer though may be your best bet, IMO.
My best to you
I found the quotes:
Hope it helps
The Jan 8 1982 Awake is the first one to use the phrase ?the Creator?s promise of a peaceful and secure new order before the generation that saw the events of 1914 C.E. passes away.?
The November 8 1995 Awake is the first one to change the phrase to read ?the Creator?s promise of a peaceful and secure new world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things.?
I'm sorry to hear of your frustrations, azaria.
There could be another deep-seated reason why your mom goes 'confused' and 'talks over' you, not wanting to follow through on a conversation. I take it she was a convert, right?
I found this from a book on the old WCG and how it radically changed. The author (J. M. Feazell) makes this astute observation about ones who found it extremely painful to change their view:
Many, if not most, first generation Sabbatarians are Sabbatarians because they left a non-Sabbatarian church, with all the resulting social and familial trauma, convinced after much study that the Sabbatarian position was correct. They had suffered for the truth, and God had honored their faithfulness.
To reject these doctrines now would be, in a very real sense, to declare that one had acted foolishly, not faithfully. It would be to abandon their sense of having done something special, something extraordinary for God. It would mean that they were not, after all, one of the only people who were not deceived. In fact, it would mean that they were actually among those who were even more deceived than others.
Some minds are not ready to contemplate that agonizing truth. The fact that she said that if JWs aren't right, she'd stop believing in God means (I think) that she senses how traumatic it'll be to face up to what you're saying. Please continue being patient and loving with her.
You don't say how old your mother is, but she sounds like she is aging and her confusion could be that she is developing dementia or alzheimers? Or some medications will cause confusion, too.
I will assume she is elderly - past 70....? (please, no insult meant to other well-ripened people on the board )
For an elderly person, leaving the religion they have known for many years is a very scary thing. It just may not be possible for her to leave behind the doctrines she has had so much faith in.
That she is getting confused also may indicate there is a crack in her eggshell of faith. However, would it be kind to finish cracking that egg at her age? She may just shatter completely.
I know, this probably isn't what you want to hear.
My suggestion is to love your mother with the christian love mentioned by someone else. Allow her her faith, and maintain yours. If she brings up doctrine and wants to discuss it, do so while she is lucid. When she becomes confused again, allow her to back away and love her anyway.
Hugs and peace on your journey
She made a comment a couple of weeks ago when we had our first conversation that if the Witnesses were wrong then God didn?t exist.
Interesting post. I've never been a JW, but I would like to make a comment on the above sentence. That line of reasoning could be made from anyone who strongly believes in their own religion. If your mother were to go out in service and knock on a door of say a very strong Catholic and they were to use that reasoning, what would your mother say to them? How would she make them see that their reasoning doesn't hold water? In other words, any false reasoning needs to be set aside in order to explore real "truths".
I think that Brenda Cloutier raised some very good points. Your mother may very well be in the early stages of senility. It can happen fairly early in some people. I'm not sure that my wife could maintain her sanity if she had to face the fact that everything she has believed for so long and has sacrificed so much for was false. Be very careful of removing the foundation that your mother's faith is built on, crumbly though it is.
Yes, I think there are pretty good points being made here. I read an ex-Mormon's explanation of why Mormons refuse to face up to plain facts. He called it the "investment paradigm" (http://www.exmormon.org/whylft26.htm an interesting read!) He explained that the church makes it difficult for people to leave because it would mean that everything they invested in it their whole life was essentially worthless. There are many uncanny parallels between the LDS and the WTS in this regard. With this in mind, I think that extreme loving care should be taken when dealing with your mom. Try and validate to her that much of her learnings and experiences with the WTS has been very positive and perhaps even that God will recognize and take account her lifelong willingness to please him. Yet could it be that while the WTS has been the source of much good in her life, that a total, rigid allegiance to this group of men is not truly necessary to please God? This could possibly lead into the question of whether or not the WTS has been appointed as God's "sole channel". I guess there probably isn't truly a way to "let her down easy", but I guess you ought to do your best if you figure on continuing.
If you're going to present anything to your mother, I would strongly recommend that you show her how the date of 607 BCE is a false date and that all the historical, biblical and archeological evidence shows that the first temple was destroyed in 586 BCE. That's all you have to say. There aren't too many Witnesses who won't realize that if that date is wrong, the the entire structure of the Organization cannot be based on bible prophecy. As long as any Witness believes that Jesus returned invisibly in 1914, and that Jehovah appointed his "Faithful & Discreet Slave" in 1919, ever other problem within the Organization can be explained away by faithful Dubs like "waiting on Jehovah" or "the Light gets brighter" or "we don't claim to be perfect", etc. etc.
If you could chip away and get rid of 40 blocks of stone that sat near the top of the Great Pyramid, the structure would still stand, but if you got rid of 40 stones at the foundation of the pyramid, the structure would likely collapse. The same applies here. If you can show your mother that the very foundation of this religion has no support, then the whole thing collapses.
wt has a long track record of signing checks in god name and they bounce
I don't think I've ever heard it so well put as this statement.
Perhaps you should give it a rest for a while. It may be that your mothers acceptance will show over time.
You are going through an emotionally draining time. I know ; I was there and clearly remember despair; anguish and futility of the realization that my entire lifes goal as a JW was all "fiction".
Remember that there is a whole bright new world waiting out there for you to take part; and the sun is shining . Get your act together slowly. Start one day at a time going out to do something that will make you feel good about yourself.
Your mother will come around eventually.
Wow..I've never heard this before
She made a comment a couple of weeks ago when we had our first conversation that if the Witnesses were wrong then God didn’t exist.
That ranks right up there with Jehovah must a have visible organization because he has an invisible one also....
This should be the next convention slogan
First I want to thank you all for responding to my post. Sorry it took so long to respond back but I work and have other obligations so I don’t always have the time to come here. I wanted to respond to each poster but it would take me so long (since I ramble on so long)
I do feel better the past couple of days. Like some have suggested, I am taking a breather. I could hardly concentrate anymore, I was so tired. I really don’t want to read anymore books. I read CoC, which I found so disturbing, that I really couldn’t read anymore. I want to start refocusing more on my own faith, which I neglect when I focus on the witness stuff. I realize that no matter what I say, my mother really won’t listen. I truly wanted to go slow with her. I didn’t want to pull the rug from under her and realize that this is all she has. In the past year since my dad passed away, we have been more free to talk in generalities but she started throwing in witness beliefs and offering magazines. One night I mentioned something which she disagreed with and that led to our first and then second abysmal conversation. Tuesday night after Alpha (at Church) my group leader and I prayed for my mother. I gave it up to God. I realize that I can’t do it and that it’s not up to me. I also asked my daughter about praying for her and also for my son each night which she agreed to. The added benefit is that it brings the two of us closer together. Grace (Mouthy) e-mailed me back (if you read this thank you so much) and I rec’d a couple of pm’s which helped also..It’s not that I will never discuss things with my mother anymore but I’m going to try and not let it get to me, that it really is out of my control. (I am keeping all the suggestions though) All I can do is be there for her. Thanks again.