Pastor Russell and 1914

by Kenneson 61 Replies latest jw friends

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  Narkissos

  RR,

  As your comment of Luke 21 states,

  It would seem to suggest that the nation of Israel would be destroyed and ruled by Gentiles.

  So the Gentile times had not begun yet when Jesus was speaking.

  Barbour & Russell's interpretation implies that they had begun over 6 centuries before. It's quite impossible IMO to derive such an idea from Luke 21. There the "Biblical patchwork" pops in, in effect distorting the Lukan text.

  When I explained the Gentile times as a JW, I felt the need to paraphrase Luke as meaning "and Jerusalem will remain trodden by the nations". That's just not what the text says.

  So, how "scriptural"?
• 

  RR

  And did this transpire in 1914? Or did Israel become a nation in 1948? I fail to see a connection between the two dates.

  Neither, it started in 1878, and culminated in 1917 as a result of the War and the ending of Gentile Times.

  1. In 1878, after a ban of Seventeen Hundred Forty-three years, Israelis were given permission to own property in the ancient land of their forefathers.
  2. In 1878 , they immediately established their first settlement, Petach Tikvah. Their return had begun.
  3. In 1897, Theodor Herzl issued a worldwide call to organize the Zionist movement
  4. In 1917, Her Majesty?s government of Great Britain endorsed a Jewish state in the famous Balfour Declaration.

  From 1936 to 1945 over six million Jews were killed in the Nazi Holocaust. In 1948, as a result of a United Nations partition, Israel became a sovereign nation.

  Have you ever read Pastor Russell's speech to the Jews at thye New York Hippodrome? It was the first time a Christian addressed a mass Jewish audience of that size. They cheered him on, skepticalin the beginning and gave him a standing ovation when he was done.

  Russell was a Christian Zionist , and did much work among the Jews, as Bible Students still do today.

  RR
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  RR

  So the Gentile times had not begun yet when Jesus was speaking.

  Yes, the Gentile times had begun already, Isreal had always been ruled by the Gentiles, however in 70, they were completely disbursed, never to be a nation, UNTIL the ending of the GentileTimes in 1914.
• 

  Narkissos

  RR:

  IMO that can hardly be deduced from Luke 21:24, which refers to future events:

  they will fall by the edge of the sword and be taken away as captives among all nations (ethnè = "Gentiles"); and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

  Btw, what do you think of 607/6 as a starting point? I guess you've been asked the question thousands of times, but I have not read your answer yet.
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  RR

  Btw, what do you think of 607/6 as a starting point? I guess you've been asked the question thousands of times, but I have not read your answer yet.

  I don't have a problem with the date. The nabonidus tablet is the only "proof" of 587, but the eqyptians were known to alter their history. And when we consider that the Muslim have been destroying the history of Israel, who knows what evidence for 607 may have been lost.

  RR
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  Kenneson

  R.R.,

  Although I have not read Russell's sermon at the Hippodrome, I read the ZWT report on it in the Oct. 15, 1910 issue. Again, he doesn't refer to 1878 or 1917, but to 1914. So, if 1878 and 1917 are scriptural dates (but not promulgated by Russell), how is 1914 (which was promulgated by him) scriptural?
• 

  RR

  Although I have not read Russell's sermon at the Hippodrome, I read the ZWT report on it in the Oct. 15, 1910 issue. Again, he doesn't refer to 1878 or 1917, but to 1914. So, if 1878 and 1917 are scriptural dates (but not promulgated by Russell), how is 1914 (which was promulgated by him) scriptural?

  The year 1914 saw the beginning of World War I, which embroiled all the great nations of the world in the conflict and witnessed the collapse of an old world order. While greatly weakening most of the participants, it set the stage for the re-establishment of Israel as a nation, through developments that produced the Balfour Declaration.

  BTW ... 1878 was promulgated by Russell, do a search.
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  shotgun

  RR, How did you ever make the transition from JW to BS(bible student) I looked at your profile and learned today is not my day and tomorrow doesn't look good either. I'd like to read your story some time if you feel like postig it...not to pick it apart just to understand the transition.

  I'm baffelled that reading the teachings of CTR are what convinced me to abandon my faith in him and his spin off religions while it did the exact opposite for you.
• 

  RR

  RR, How did you ever make the transition from JW to BS (bible student) ... I'd like to read your story some time if you feel like postig it...not to pick it apart just to understand the transition.

  Sure, here it is: MY STORY

  Need any filling in between the lines, just let me know!

  RR
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  Kenneson

  R.R.,

  I would say that World War II (especially the Holocaust and the numerous refugees it produced) was far more the reason for Israel becoming a nation in 1948 than anything the Zionists repatriations (beginning in 1878) ever accomplished.

  I thought we were talking about 1878 in relation to Israel.

  I'm very well aware of the promulgations Russell made for 1878 including that Christ had been exercising his kingly power since that date and that the resurrection had then begun. Also, that the Babylon of Revelation had fallen that year. But I fail to see where he predicted anything for Israel in that year.