crucifixation or upright stake (page 3)

truthseeker1

I thought he died of lung cancer from smoking 2 packs a day for 33 1/3 years

pseudoxristos....There is also a very fascinating mythological dimension to all this. As I discussed in detail in an earlier post (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/73244/1.ashx), the Garden of Eden was synonymous with the ancient Jerusalem Temple, and the Tree of Life was synonymous with Eve ("the mother of all"), the Canaanite mother-goddess Asherah ("the mother of the gods") who was the source of life and dressed with clothes by her followers (cf. 2 Kings 23:7), personified Wisdom (described as a "Tree of Life" in Proverbs), and the Asherah pole that bore the bronze snake that Moses had made (cf. 2 Kings 18:4).

Much of the early Christian lore on the cross and the Virgin Mary (particularly in Gnosticism) drew on this tradition. In the Epistle of Barnabas and Justin Martyr, Jesus himself was compared with the snake borne on the Asherah pole, and many gnostic groups (especially the Ophites) drew a parallel between Jesus the Revealer and the serpent in Eden who was the first to reveal the divine truth. Mary was "New Eve" in Revelation, ch. 12, Hippolytus, and other early Christian writers, and Mary bore Jesus just as the cross bore Jesus, and Mary was later assumed and taken into heaven just as the cross later ascended and rose to heaven. Like the Tree of Life, the cross was thought by some to be the source of eternal life (Jesus' crucifixion as the moment where eternal life becomes possible), and in Jewish-Christian tradition the cross in Golgotha on which Jesus was crucified was the actual original Tree of Life in the Garden (which, as the OT commonly assumes, was in Jerusalem), which in a surprise to the rulers who crucified him, gave life to Jesus, healing him, and allowing him to rise from the dead. Finally, Jesus is represented sometimes as Wisdom herself (cf. Q and Matthew) and sometimes as having Wisdom/the Holy Spirit as his mother.

William Penwell

The PBS documentary "From Jesus to Christ" discusses the cruxifixion. They say that in 1968 they excavated a body that was cruxified by the Romans. What they say is that it was an upright beam with a cross beam running across the top, more like a T. So neither theories are correct.

alt

The article can be found at:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/jesus/crucifixion.html

Will

glitter

Of course Jesus died on a pagan cross, the Romans were pagan!

Exactly! I *never* understood the cross vs stake argument based on it "being pagan", even when I was a kid.

BluesBrother

I grew up with the certainty that Christ died on an upright stake and the silly old churches had it all wrong as usual. It is only since reading on the net that I have really appreciated the wealth of evidence in favour of the traditional cross. Incidentally why do they still sing a Kindom Song "He died upon a tree to set all mankind free", I suppose it rhymes.

The illustration that I vividly recall is the one from Justus Lypsius(16th Century) , showing an upright stake. Check this site if the link works........ http://www.agapeacceptance.co.uk/justus1.htm

funkyderek

alt Mmmmm..... cakes!

Welcome to the board

gumby

Nobody used the obvious.

He had a sign hung above his head, not his hands.

Thomas said "unless I see the holes in his hands from the nail(s) I will not believe". He didn't say nail.

* struts off like he's real smart and stuff*

Gumby

Farkel

amac,

: Farkel is so kind.

It's about FOCUS, dear amac. Get their attention first! The kindness part comes later.

I have my way and you have your way. I don't tell you how to do your way, and I would guess that I'm much more successful than you with my way. But that is only a guess. I just got a message today that someone wanted to translate something I wrote into French so it could be put up on a French website. But maybe you have a better way, amac. I don't know. Maybe you've had more success than I have. If so, please help me out......

Farkel

Kenneson

William,

How can they determine from the excavation of a body that the Roman instrument of crucifixion was a T rather than a cross? If the account in John is true, there had to be a place for a sign to be put above his head, which would correspond more to a cross than a T or an upright stake.

crucifixation or upright stake