Is All of the Universe Everywhere

by Satanus 24 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Satanus

  Dr elsewhere

  Thanks for the advice. I never before realised how dangerous those darn drying machines were.

  S
• 

  zen nudist

  a light source supposedly produces photons which stream at all objects which then absorb some, reflect some, and re-emit some which then travel to our eyes where they stimulate rods and cones in the back of our eye which then causes electrical impulses to activate a series of chambers within nerve fibers that in turn causes those electrical pulses to spawn others in sequence down the nerve fiber to a synapse where those pulses trigger the release of neuro-transmitter chemicals which flow across a tiny gap to a neuron and when enough of the different sorts of chemistry trigger the neuron, it fires and sends chemicals to other neurons and thus it goes....

  and from all this firing something weaves a map of the world and a virtual realm and a symbol of ourself within it-- located where all the info from all the senses tells us we should be....and that is how science says we know anything at all...but their theories are based on certain fundamental assumptions which have not been demonstrated as facts but generally assumed by most anyway...

  assumptions:

  1. there is an objective reality which roughly corrosponds to our virtual world.

  2. other people actually exist independently of each other

  3. what two or more people can identify and measure together, exists

  4. what only one can notice and not share is likely not real but imaginary.

  This thread began with reflections, and the hindus have something I recall as Indra's web made of many mirror like pearls which comprise the real basis of reality as each one of those pearls represents a consciousness reflecting info to other consciousnesses.

  around the world, there have always been objections to the 4 assumptions above and many may chalk them up to ignorance superstition, reilgious make believe, but I personally cannot dismiss the possibility that everything I know is nothing more than a dream, perhaps shared by many minds, perhaps made up entirely by my own....the only thing I am relatively sure about is that what I experience is my own minds invention and I cannot verify that it is anything more at this time.
• 

  frankiespeakin

  I remember years ago reading a book that got into the implications concerning the Bell Theorem. It wrote about a "nonlocal" universe, instantaneous communication of subatomic particles(proven in 1980's), not bound by the speed of light, and the plausibility of the universal mind. I think the title was a "nonlocal universe".

  My idea is very close to Gaia therory. That every thing in the universe is connected and alive. That all the individual parts make up a whole that act in concert with one another (which may appear chaotic to us but very organized on another level). Just like our body is made up of atoms and these atoms form molecules, these molecules form more complex molecular groups which produce living cells to living cells joined together to make organs the organs function together with other organs in the body to produce the body, and we look at ourselves as one whole unit being composed of other small units of life. So I think we can take it a step further and see that man on the surface of the earth is really just a small unit of life and that there is a bigger whole of which we are a small part,, and the earth itself being a life form composed of many smaller lifeforms. I don't think it's any stretch of the imagination to view the earth and other planets rotating around the sun as a lifeforms which together with other suns and planetary systems make up a lifeform we called the Galaxy, and perhaps Galaxies work in concert one another to make an even bigger life form and who knows where it ends?? maybe our universe is combined with other universes to make still yet another life form and on and on it goes and where it stops nobody knows. Since size is relative and infinity can go in both directions from smaller and smaller to biger and bigger, who is to say maybe an electron which we cannot use light to see and which we can only therorize about is itself a universe teaming with life??
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  frankiespeakin

  Oh I did a search for the book I mentioned in the previous post and its title is: The Non-Local Universe: The New
  Physics and Matters of the Mindby Robert Nadeau and Menas Kafatos

  New York: Oxford University Press, 1999

  Heres a c&p&link on the book:

  http://www.innovationwatch.com/books/bks_0195132564.htm

  Classical physics states that physical reality is local -- a point in space cannot influence another point beyond a relatively short distance. However, 1997, experiments were conducted in which light particles (photons) originated under certain conditions and traveled in opposite directions to detectors located about seven miles apart. The amazing results indicated that the photons "interacted" or "communicated" with one another instantly, or "in no time." Since a distance of seven miles is quite vast in quantum physics, this led physicists to an extraordinary conclusion -- even if experiments could somehow be conducted in which the distance between the detectors was halfway across the known universe, the results would indicate that interaction or communication between the photons would be instantaneous. What was revealed in these little-known experiments in 1997 was that physical reality is non-local -- a discovery that Robert Nadeau and Menas Kafatos view as "the most momentous in the history of science."

  In The Non-Local Universe, Nadeau and Kafatos offer a revolutionary look at the breathtaking implications of nonlocality. They argue that since every particle in the universe has been "entangled" with other particles like the two photons in the 1997 experiments, physical reality on the most basic level is an undivided wholeness. In addition to demonstrating that physical processes are vastly interdependent and interactive, they also show
• 

  frankiespeakin

  Here is anothe interesting C&P&L on the Bell Theorem:

  http://www2.cruzio.com/~quanta/bell.html BELL'S THEOREM PROVES PHYSICAL REALITY MUST BE NON-LOCAL.

  ---

  One way of conceptualizing the world is the ART schema proposed by Immanuel Kant and others where ART stands for Appearance, Reality and Theory. Appearance is the facts of experience, both inner and outer, Reality is the hidden causes behind these Appearances, and Theory is the stories we tell one another about both Appearance and Reality.
  
  Physics concerns itself only with outer experiences not inner and the primary physics Story About Appearances is Quantum Theory which describes without error the complete range of Quantum Facts. A particular class of quantum facts concerns the EPR experiment (named after Einstein, Podolski and Rosen) in which two quantum particles A and B which were once together fly apart and are measured at two distant locations A and B.
  
  In the Quantum Theory, observer A's choice of what kind of measurement to make on particle A instantly changes the state description of particle B--a general feature of quantum theory called "quantum phase entanglement". In the theory a particle is represented by possibility amplitudes and relative phases. When the particles separate, so do the amplitudes, but the phases of particle A remain entangled with the phases of particle B. Any action on A--such as an observation--changes not only A's phases but the phases of B as well.
  
  This action of observer A on distant particle B does not diminish with distance, cannot be shielded and travels faster than light. This (in theory) distant influence is unmediated, unmitigated and immediate. This (in theory) quantum connection between two particles once together now apart is a lot like voodoo--no known force connects particles A and B--just the fact of their once being together suffices to mingle their phases.
  
  (In the jargon of physics such instant voodoo influences are called "non-local"; all ordinary light-speed-limited forces are called "local")
  
  But this non-local connection only exists in (the admittedly powerful) Theory. In Appearance (the quantum facts) no action taken by observer A ever leads to an observable effect (faster-than-light or otherwise) at location B. Thus the quantum facts do not show an FTL (voodoo) connection. In line with the apparent unobservability of instant links Quantum Theory itself despite its internal representation of non-local links never allows these links to surface as observable phenomena.
  
  The Theory shows an instant connection twixt A and B; the Appearances do not. What about Reality? Can we tell a story about invisible influences behind the phenomena that leaves out the instant connection or must a non-local connection be necessarily present in every Quantum Reality--every story we can tell about the underlying causes of all possible experiments on separated particles A and B?
  
  Irish physicist John Stewart Bell considered the EPR system and showed with a devilishly clever proof that all conceivable models of Reality must incorporate this instant connection. What Bell showed is that despite the fact that Relativity prohibits instantaneous connections, despite the fact that no such connections have ever been observed either in EPR experiments or any other, despite the fact that quantum theory itself predicts no observable instant connections, despite all these considerations from Fact and Theory, the Reality of the EPR particles is such that their initial contact must create an instantaneous voodoo-style link between them below the level of Appearances.
  
  Bell's Theorem (Reality must be non-local) is remarkable for several reasons: 1) it is a mathematical proof, not a conjecture or speculation; 2) it is a proof about Reality not Appearances. How often does one find such a window into the nature of reality? 3) it is counter-intuitive: why should everywhere local facts need to be supported by a non-local reality?
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  In that scenario, we are not really here, but only dreaming that we are here. That teaching says that we have never left our home in heaven.

  "I BELIEVE IN EVERYTHING until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists even if it is in your mind. Who's to say that dreams...aren't as real as the here and now?" John Lennon <<<Interesting, ey?

  Really life down here on mother earth is so bizarre that sometimes you wonder if you're having one long nightmare.

  Flyin'
• 

  Satanus

  That teaching says that we have never left our home in heaven.

  I like it.

  S
• 

  MerryMagdalene

  "Is All of the Universe Everywhere?".................................................................................................

  ..............................................................................................I don't know. Where else would it be?

  Is this anything like the theory of a holographic universe (which I don't really understand either but it sounds cool and so seems totally plausible anyway)?
• 

  Mac

  I've heard that god is everywhere...even in yer pocket!!

  I,ve erected a shrine for lint... just to be on the safe side!!

  mac,
• 

  Satanus

  Undaunted danny

  The quote makes me wonder if jesus was talking about the traditional jewish god, or something else, like what has been labeled the perennial truth.

  Thanks for your concern. Which medication do you recommend?

  Frankie

  Heavy fuel.

  Merrymagdalene

  It could be the same. I gotta read up more on holographics.

  Mac

  Millions of christians envey you.

  S