Norwegian Lesbians and Sodomites - Let God Deal With Them?

by hillary_step 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    While thumbing through a 1948 WT recently I came upon a questions from readers that struck me as rather interesting. It is a rather long read, for which I apologize, but bear with it and you will notice a WT dealing with issues of sexual activity in quite a different manner than they would today.

    Dear Brethren :

    In the Norwegian Watchtower for April 15, 1947, we had a very fine article about marriage. The only reason a brother had to divorce his wife in accordance with this article was unfaithfulness from his wife?s side - if she had sexual intercourse with another man or men.

    Specially since World War II a rather peculiar phenomenon occurs here in Norway : married women are seeking other married women, no doubt with the intention to seek sexual pleasure with each other. The doctors have much to write and say about the matter.

    May I ask you; What does the Bible say about this? Is it counted as a great sin as if a man had sexual intercourse with another man, just as the inhabitants of Sodom & Gomorrah?

    If it can be proved that the wife of a brother has been seeking such pleasure, has he the right to divorce her in accordance with the Bible? I thank you in advance if you would be so kind as to let me have your answer to this question.

    Dear Brother,

    In answer to your inquiry of August 27:

    When women, as is now being reported in Norway, seek sexual pleasure with other women, committing masturbation among themselves, it is not the fornication for which, or adultery for which Jesus said a husband should divorce his wife. But it is an unnatural vice of the female sex, and it is gross uncleanness and is sinful in God?s sight. It eventually results in great degradation mentally and physically and though it may not constitute Scriptural grounds for the husband to divorce his wife, yet he should warn her of the serious consequences of such a practice , not merely in body and mind but particularly spiritually. According to what God?s word says about related sinful practices? debarring a professed Christian from inheriting the kingdom of God, such a vile sin, if persisted in after due warning from the scriptures, would debar a woman from life in God?s new world.

    In parallel fashion, where a male commits sexual filthiness with another male, in other words, sodomy, it does not constitute the scriptural grounds for his wife to divorce him. A man cannot be married to another man, neither cam a women really be married to another women; no matter what the sexual abuses each one commits with the same sex. But sodomy is named in the scriptures as a very vile sin a practice which debars the sinner from inheriting Gods kingdom and also life on earth in the new world. Sodomy by a husband shows great disrespect of the man for his wife, just as masturbation by a wife with another woman shows similar disrespect for her husband. The wife of learning of her husband?s guilt in sodomy, should warn him of the end results to him, especially as to his relations with God and Christ and his prospects of eternal life in the new world. If he quits the practice, seeking Gods forgiveness through Christ, she also in a Godly manner may forgive him

    .

    I cannot help thinking that the whole pre-judicial committee idea, that is, of partners taking care of their own sexual lives is one that is alien to the majority of Jehovah?s Witnesses today who have become used to the intervention of the WTS in every aspect of their lives. They may even find it hard to believe that these things tended to be left to partners to deal with, rather than a judicial committee.

    Despite the muddled theology regarding divorce, it was left to the wife for example, to warn her husband of sexual matters that could cause an issue between them, and there was no hint of needing to ?keep the congregation clean?, or disfellowship those who chose a path that the WTS found disagreeable. Basically, they behaved in a manner that many mainstream churches have always behaved, that is, to frown on bad behavior but to leave the judgment part of things to God.

    What is interesting is that comparing attitudes towards these matters over the past fifty years, the WTS is forced to admit that the edict of progressive revelation does not just relate to doctrine, but also to the very sensitive matter of personal sexual morality. They now feel that they are able to police the morality of their adherents, punishing and rewarding at will at the behest of a corporate image, rather than an appeal to genuine morality. They do this, because God took his time letting them know how to deal with these issues and they were only told by him in the 60's and 70's.

    How does the WTS really know that its adherents are for the greater part upright and moral? Surely it is only if they allow the freedom to choose that a persons true desires will become manifest. As it is, I can confidently state from my own experience as a JW, that even with the morality police in action, around 30-35% of Jehovah?s Witnesses end up in the interrogation room relating details of their personal lives, often before virtual strangers.

    Best regards - HS

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex

    It is because of situations like you describe HS, and the constant flip-flopping that I'll never (never say never) join another religion. Religion is nothing more than people's rules and regulations. I do not want some religious people with a God-complex to stick their nose in my family's business ever again.

    My relationship with God is between he and I and no one else.

  • codeblue
    codeblue

    ditto Big Tex (well said)

  • dh
    dh

    so you can have a threesome and not get df'd?

  • Valis
    Valis
    In parallel fashion, where a male commits sexual filthiness with another male, in other words, sodomy, it does not constitute the scriptural grounds for his wife to divorce him

    I wonder how many women would agree with that one..

    Sincerely,

    District Overbeer

  • seven006
    seven006

    I got real tired of the "new light" flip flop by the cult leaders in regard to personal sexual activities between married couples. I remember showing something to my wife at the time, from one of the watchtowers and she got so mad she threw the family book at me "literally threw it.'

    It was just one of the many "new light" issues where I wished they'd shut the hell up, mind their own business, and turn the god dammed new light off on their way out of my bed room. It was hard enough dealing with them getting into every aspect of your life without the need for them to try and get into everybody's pants.

    Dave

  • Gretchen956
    Gretchen956
    It eventually results in great degradation mentally and physically

    Of course masturbation makes you go blind, everyone knows that!

    I have some good friends, lesbians who have been together for 17 years, who recently got married in Oregon. They have property together, raised their family together, have grandkids together, are active in their church together, and are ready to retire. Two of the happiest women I have ever known with a deep and commited love for each other.

    Not quite sure how it has taken its toll on them mentally and physically, but I CAN tell you how the WT Abuse has taken ITs toll on countless people who are living under the sword of damacles. (did I spell that right??)

    Sherry

  • gumby
    gumby
    I cannot help thinking that the whole pre-judicial committee idea, that is, of partners taking care of their own sexual lives is one that is alien to the majority of Jehovah?s Witnesses today who have become used to the intervention of the WTS in every aspect of their lives. They may even find it hard to believe that these things tended to be left to partners to deal with, rather than a judicial committee.

    Well said HS and very true.

    It has been said that the majority of JW's on the planet at this moment has only been in the Organisation for 10 years or less. 10 years in the 0rganisation tells one very little of the Organisations previous beliefs on countless matters. If Jehovah's Witnesses today knew of the beliefs and teaching once taught by the Organisation and the negative turmoil it caused in thousands of peoples lives....they would be shocked.

    The Organisation realises that 95% of Jehovah's Witnesses today, do not take the time to do an in depth study on the Organisations past history and blunders. They don't have time to research this as it is hard enough to keep up with all the bullshit they must digest currently on a weekly basis......which the majority also fail miserbly at....let alone study the societys history.

    Gumby

  • Valis
    Valis
    I cannot help thinking that the whole pre-judicial committee idea, that is, of partners taking care of their own sexual lives is one that is alien to the majority of Jehovah?s Witnesses today who have become used to the intervention of the WTS in every aspect of their lives.

    nothing like a bit of pre-judicial emasculation...

    Sincerely,

    District Overbeer

  • gumby
    gumby
    nothing like a bit of pre-judicial emasculation

    Valation

    Gumby

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit