its just me ,,,,

by looking-4-the-truth 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • NewSense

    MyAuntFanny: Just go to Google, and type in "female genital mutilation." When the page pops up, the first site that you will see is that of Amnesty International. Go to the end of the article where it talks about F.G.M. and religion. It says: F.G.M predates Islam and is NOT practised by the majority of Muslims." The second site is that of religious On this webpage, you will read: "F.G.M. originated in Africa. It was, and remains, a cultural, not a religious practice." You will also read: "This mutilating operation is often assocaited with Islam. This is incorrect. F.G.M. is primarily a social practice, not a religious one." Notice that in the Amnesty International webpage it says that F.G.M. predates Islam, just as I said. Both sites agree that this is a cultural issue, and not specifically a religious issue. Sadly, this heinous practice is performed in many parts of the world by people of different religions. If you read these two articles carefully, you will see that certain Christian, Moslem and Jewish people all subject their female children to this atrocious practice. By the way, I have just given you the proverbial "tip of the iceberg" as far as information on this practice is concerned. If you are interested, just go to Google and type in "female genital mutilation." You will get many, many hits.

    P.S. I wish to make one correction to my earlier posting. The word "circumcision" has three c's, not two. Sorry, my bad. Of course, when I said two c's, I was talking about the middle "c" and last "c" only! Ha! Ha!

  • funkyderek

    Hmm, I agree with LittleToe again. I can't help thinking I must be wrong somehow.

    There's clearly nothing linking this verse that mentions "a prophet" to the Muslim prophet Muhammad (or "muhumad", never encountered that spelling before, doesn't match phonetically either). It could refer to any prophet, there were about 30 in the Old Testament. Any particular reason you think it refers to Muhammad, l4tt?

  • Nosferatu

    Welcome to the forum, Looking!

    I don't believe in the bible.

  • kes152

    Greetings to both of you, my borthers (LittleToe, Looking-4-the-truth),

    Peace be with both of you.

    Looking, in Deutermonomy 18:17-19 it says, "And the Lord said unto me, "They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."

    The Lord will choose a prophet from among their brothers, a man, and he will be like Moses. And the Lord will put his own words into the mouth of this prophet and he will speak all that the Lord commands him. And it will 'come to pass' that anyone who does not listen to the words of this prophet will have an account required of him.

    So if we wish to know if Muhammed was 'such a prophet,' we need to know what he was "commanded to speak." Looking-4-the-truth, do you know what the Prophet Muhammed said "in the name of the Lord?"

  • dh

    Claims by Islam that Muhammad was foretold in The Bible

    A Prophet Like You (Moses)

    Deuteronomy 18: 18 ?A prophet I shall raise up for them from the midst of their brothers, like you; and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him?

    Muslims claim that this scripture to Moses must refer to the coming of Muhammad because it says ?I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him?. The only foundation for this claim is that Muhammad claimed that the Angel Gabriel spoke to him in a cave in Mecca and put the words of the Quran in his mouth.

    (Still needs researching, in short, God put words into the mouths of all the prophets, and it can be proven that evidence to substantiate Muhammad?s claim to being ?Like You (Moses)? is of no more sold foundation than that made by other prophets.)

    The Helper/Comforter

    John 16: 7 ? 11 ?7 Nevertheless, I am telling YOU the truth, It is for YOUR benefit I am going away. For if I do not go away, the helper will by no means come to YOU; but if I do go my way, I will send him to YOU. 8 And when that one arrives he will give the world convincing evidence concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgement: 9 in the first place, concerning sin, because they are not exercising faith in me; 10 then concerning righteousness, because I am going to the Father and YOU will behold me no longer; 11 then concerning judgement, because the ruler of this world has been judged.?

    The Muslim claim is that the Helper or Comforter referred to in this scripture is in fact Muhammad, however, let us analyse this scripture in context, by looking at further verses relating to the same Comforter or Helper referred to in John 16: 7 ? 11.

    John 14: 15 ? 17 ?15 If YOU love me, YOU will observe my commandments; 16 and I will request the Father and he will give YOU another helper to be with YOU forever, 17 the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither beholds it nor knows it. YOU know it, because it remains with YOU and is in YOU.?

    ?Ask,? ADIt and in agreement with 15:16 and 16:23; P66!BWVgSyh,p, ?ask me.?

    Or, ?another paraclete (comforter).? Gr., al'lon pa·ra'kle·ton, masc.

    Or, ?the active force.? Gr., to pneu'ma, neuter. See Ge 1:2

    Genesis 1: 2 ?2 Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God?s active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters.?

    Active Force is translated to pneu'ma from the Hebrew weru?ach, translated meaning ?Spirit?. ru?ach is also translated to mean ?Wind? and by other words that denote an invisible active force.

    ?Beholds it? & ?You know it.? ?It? (Gr., au·to', neuter) refers to ?the spirit? (to pneu'ma, neuter).

    Or, ?orphans.? Gr., or·pha·nous'; Lat., or'fa·nos.

    Or, ?the paraclete (comforter).? Gr., ho . . . pa·ra'kle·tos, masc.

    John 14: 25 ? 26 ?25 While remaining with YOU I have spoken these things to YOU. 26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach YOU all things and bring back to YOUR minds all the things I told YOU.?

    ?That one,? masc., referring to ?the helper,? masc., in vs 7.

    ?A sacred service.? Gr., la·trei'an.

    Or, ?the paraclete (comforter).? Gr., ho pa·ra'kle·tos, masc.

    ?Will give . . . convincing evidence.? Or, ?will reprove.? Gr., e·leg'xei.

    ?What he is talking about.? B omits.

    Or, ?in union with me.? Gr., en e·moi'. (Can also be translated ?In Me?

    Or, ?their knowing you.? Gr., hi'na gi·no'sko·si se.

    After breaking these verses down, we can clearly see that the helper referred to in John 16: 7 ? 11 is the same Holy Spirit or Active Force sent by God, referred to in John 14: 15 ? 17, Genesis 1: 2, and John
    14: 25 ? 26, and not a man or prophet!

    Edited to add: I think this is an excerpt from an online book called Dear Muslim, Let Me Tell You Why I Believed - By Walid. But I'm not sure as I've had it on my computer for years.

  • dh

    I found this on my computer too, which might be of interest... The same topic of whether Muhammed was spoken of in the Bible.

    The words in Deuteronomy 18:15 read as follows:

    "The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear."

    Many Muslims are under the impression that this passage is a prophecy about Muhammad. The words "a prophet like me (Moses)" indicate to those Muslims that Muhammad is the promised prophet (not Jesus as Christians believe) for the following reasons;

    Moses was born of parents; Muhammad was also born like Moses, of a father and a mother. He was not like Jesus Christ, who was born only of a mother, without a father.

    When Moses became an adult, he was married. Muhammad was also married, contrary to Jesus Christ who never married.

    C. Moses had sons, and Muhammad had children too. But Jesus did not have any descendants, as he was never married.

    Moses died in old age and was buried, the same happened to Muhammad.

    To many Muslims, those verses are ample proof that the prophecy to Moses of Deuteronomy 18:15 must be pointing to the coming of Muhammad, and not to Jesus Christ as Christians maintain.

    Now let us analyse these words in greater detail;

    "... a Prophet like me (Moses),"

    If the only proof of Muhammad being like Moses was that they were both born of two human parents, then they are only as similar as the rest of mankind, in that everyone aside from Adam and Jesus is born of two human parents. Thus, this characteristic proves nothing for Muhammad?s claim to Prophethood.

    If Muhammad was like Moses because he was married, then once again, they were only as similar to eachother as they were to the rest of mankind. Since a great many of mankind are married, this makes Muhammad?s claim to prophethood no stronger than anyone else?s.

    If Muhammad was regarded the same as Moses because he had descendants, then this fact could, like the other s so far, cannot be used to determine the prophecy, because once again, a great many people in this world have children.

    Muhammad, just like Moses, died in his old age and was buried. If this example was used to prove the meaning of the prophecy, then this point too could not be used to prove the similarities, as every person in this world has to die and be buried. To die and be buried is common to all and does not make a man unique.

    If these words do not point to Muhammad, then who do they point to? Let us analyse the Christian claim that Jesus is the rightful fulfilment of this prophecy.

    "... a Prophet like me (Moses),"

    During the childhood of Moses, Pharaoh threatened to kill him, just as Jesus in his childhood was threatened to be killed by Herod. Not all people born are threatened to be killed during their infancy.

    During the birth of Moses, the Pharaoh was furious and ordered that all boys less than two years of age must be killed. When Jesus was born, Herod was very angry and ordered that all boys less than two years of age must be killed. In the whole world, only these two personalities have experienced such intense hatred and persecution.

    During his childhood, Moses was protected by the daughter of Pharaoh. As a child, Jesus was protected by Joseph his foster father. Not all people were protected by people chosen of God during their childhood when their lives were threatened.

    During his childhood, Moses lived far from his home country in Egypt. It was the same with Jesus, who during his childhood lived in exile in Egypt. Not all children have had to escape to a distant country, like Egypt, during their childhood.

    When Moses served as the divine messenger of God, he received the power of the Lord to perform miracles, just as Jesus, who in his authority as the Living Word, received power from God to perform miracles by healing the sick and raising the dead from the grave. Only true prophets of God are given that power!

    Moses freed the people of Israel from the bondage of the Egyptian slavery, and Jesus freed his people from the chains of sin and death.

    From these points, can this prophecy of Deuteronomy 18 possibly point to anyone but Jesus Christ?

    Certainly not to a logical mind!

  • Odrade
    "a Prophet like me (Moses),"

    "....and Moses was the meekest man in all the land...."

    bwahahahaha! Sorry, couldn't resist.

    Hmmm, in my research on the historicity of the Bible, I also have run across a widely (though not universally) accepted opinion among scholars that Jeremiah probably penned Deut. That would put the prophecy even farther (generationally) from Ishmael's line. (Forgive me if the point has been made.) Furthermore, Deuternomy appears to be an attempt to solidify the nation's religio-political climate post-upheaval. It doesn't make any sense to me that it was pointing to Muhammed. In fact, the Israelites who had this prophecy had hung the mantle on various kings and prophets as "Messiah" before even Jesus came along.

    That being said, I freely admit I have never read even a part of the Qu'ran, nor have I done any scholarly research into its writing.

    Welcome to the board, by the way, I'm also interested in the circumstances leading up to a Muslim man marrying a Mormom woman. Are either of you excommunicated or sanctioned by your respective religions for this marriage?


  • SusanHere

    Let me help out a little here ...

    Mormons are not "sanctioned" or "excommunicated" for marrying out of their religion. It is discouraged, but that's all.

    Many part-member families are happy, though they have special challenges that simply won't be a factor if both spouses are LDS, such as what values to raise the children with, what holidays to celebrate and how, how important education should be (very high if you are LDS), morality issues, money issues, how to spend Sundays, importance of families, and on and on and on.

    With part-member families, all of these, and more, become potential problem issues as they will have to be faced and dealt with and can be an ongoing conflict that will affect the entire family. Every family has issues to be settled and compromises to be made, but it helps if the core values of both spouses are the same, and LDS people tend to value their religion greatly. Even if they truly think they can compromise on issues once they're married, or once the children come, they usually find compromise unacceptable, especially where the children are concerned. It can be a problem, obviously.

    So, I'd also like to hear how this couple got together, and congratulations on being happy thus far! May it always be so!!


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