Did Jesus and Peter miss something in the story of Flood?

by Pole 21 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Pole

  Yet another Flood question.

  Jesus and Peter used the story of Flood to illustrate how God will destroy hundreds of millions of evil people again. (Let's assume they really said/wrote the things recorded in 2 Peter 2:5 and Mathew 24:38).

  However, just after the Flood God promised:

  " My rainbow I do give in the cloud, and it must serve as a sign of the covenant between me and the earth. (...) N o more will the waters become a deluge to bring all flesh to ruin."

  What was the point of making this promise, if God's now going to bring all flesh to ruin, anyway?

  Did God really mean something along these lines:

  "This big water thing was really a pain the... Took so much time to sort things out after the whole thing was supposed to be over! I finally ended up having to miraculously multiply the population of humans and animals. And what really, really s**ks is that I had to allow hyper-speed evolution to ensure the pre-flood variety of species. I mean how are those young earth creationists in the 20th-21st century going to refute evolution now? I really have to think of another way of bringing all flesh to ruin.... Should have listened to Michael whe he said it ain't gonna work..."

  Ok, I'm getting carried away, but you get my point.

  Was this how Noah and his family + readers of Genesis were supposed to understand God's promise? Or did Jesus and Peter miss something?
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  Golf

  If the flood wasn't global, why didn't he just tell them to move out of the region because it would be flooded? I mean, he told (by angels) Lot and his family to move out Sodom and Gomorrah because these immoral cities will be destroyed?

  Guest 77
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  XQsThaiPoes

  Because according to god they were the only 8 righteous people on earth. So if they move they would just meet more bad people. This story why is it even in the bible it makes no sense. It is not even a good parable it has no point and explains nothing. Think of it. Noahs ark just contradicts the bible and known history of everybody. It like god wanted just to confuse people. It is not even scary because at the end he swears never to do it again.
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  A Paduan

  Jesus and Peter used the story of Flood to illustrate how God will destroy hundreds of millions of evil people again.

  take heed then how you hear, for to him who has more will be given

  What Peter said in that chapter was...... even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction..............and.............the Lord knows how...to keep the unrighteous under punishment
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  Golf

  Poe, you say more evil people if he was to just move away? What do you think his son did to him to deserve a curse, shake hands?

  Guest 77
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  blondie

  I always understood that statement to mean that God would not bring to ruin the plants, animals, insects, because of humans. As a JW, I always saw God destroying only the bad people without hurting the rest of life on earth.

  Well, that was my JW view anyway

  Blondie
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  peacefulpete

  This is a classic example of the Documentery Hypothesis. J (an early Yahwist) has "Yahweh" declare to never again kill the animals and plants in chapt 8 while P (later priestly) has altered the tale so that "God" specifically "covenants" (a priestly term) that he would never again use a "Deluge" to kill animal life (ground has no value) in chapt 9. It is possible the difference was due to a Persian form of apocalyticism that felt that the age would end by fire. We see this idea in Greek thought developed into a cycle of destruction by flood followed by the next age ending by fire. Jewish thinkers were attracted to the idea as it worked with their own flood legend, however they generally resisted the concept of cyclical time. Therefore they deemed the coming destruction by fire to be permanent. We see this fully developed by later Christians in 2 Peter 3 where end by fire follows end by flood.
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  Pole

  Thanks for your comments everyone.

  Blondie,

  I always understood that statement to mean that God would not bring to ruin the plants, animals, insects, because of humans. As a JW, I always saw God destroying only the bad people without hurting the rest of life on earth.

  Well, that was my JW view anyway

  I just assumed "all flesh" may have meant the flesh of the wicked humans too. Like the flesh of those who didn't know why they got killed, the children, or the mentally ill. But apparently all flesh meant that God only felt sorry about his favourite insects and not such humans.

  Anyway your JW answer would solve my question in a JW fashion.

  Pole
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  Narkissos

  The contradiction was somehow felt and explained away in 1 Enoch 55:
  

  1 And after that the Head of Days repented and said: In vain have I destroyed all who dwell 2 on the earth. And He sware by His great name: Henceforth I will not do so to all who dwell on the earth, and I will set a sign in the heaven: and this shall be a pledge of good faith between Me and them for ever, so long as heaven is above the earth. And this is in accordance with My command. 3 When I have desired to take hold of them by the hand of the angels on the day of tribulation and pain because of this, I will cause My chastisement and My wrath to abide upon them, saith 4 God, the Lord of Spirits. Ye mighty kings who dwell on the earth, ye shall have to behold Mine Elect One, how he sits on the throne of glory and judges Azazel, and all his associates, and all his hosts in the name of the Lord of Spirits.

  For both J and P the conclusion of the Flood story implied the setting of a permanent world order, leaving definitely the global cataclysm back in primeval times (also Isaiah 54:9f). But this had to be interpreted as a provisional and temporary arrangement to fit in the later apocalyptic perspective, which drew both on the OT Prophets leitmotiv of fiery judgment ("the Day of Yhwh") and the Greek tradition of (cyclical) world conflagration (the latter being clearly adopted by the writer of 2 Peter, and by him only as far as I know).
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  myelaine

  And after that the Head of Days repented and said: In vain have I destroyed all who dwell 2 on the earth.

  Ye mighty kings who dwell on the earth, ye shall have to behold Mine Elect One, how he sits on the throne of glory and judges Azazel, and all his associates, and all his hosts in the name of the Lord of Spirits

  Narkissos,

  Notice God is Judging in the name of the Lord of Spirits. Therefore all the world that are killed are only killed physically leaving the spirit to be judged. God has no need to cause a global flood to "kill us", we are on the brink of global ruin right now, aren't we?

  Proverbs 13:1

  A wise son HEEDS his Father's instruction, but a scoffer does not listen to rebuke.

  michelle