by D wiltshire 33 Replies latest jw friends
wiltshire, i think you have scared your former friend--he is experiencing the rather disturbing feeling of free thought, and the crack in the the dam might be showing for him; it is too dangerous for him to continue
quotes:
you rock hard like early van halen, your site is just the best.
It helped me a GREAT DEAL with many issues; now i know why the "truth" is making me nuts; my old brain remembers all the old material but the new brain sees the new; result is cognitive dissonance.
THANKS AGAIN
: David, even Jehovah uses Thought Reform. He uses it for good ON HIMSELF to keep to righteousness.
If Jehovah needs to "reform" something in himself, then he's a piss-ant God.
Farkel
Last part of the message that did not come through.
Remember this article is not finished
Strongs works do add another and final meaning, but not based on word meanings as above. He uses his theological "bias" or background to specifically link the word to the doctrine of the Trinity.
Q
Alright so the word ruach can mean "active force". But what about the other changes?A
I will prepare a more detailed look at that for you. ( see....QAlright lets skip over that.One of the things that show you are under mind control is disfellowshiping. This puts fear into JW members to conform to Watchtower policies or lose their friends and family. You can not think any think different or let your conscience be your guide in relation to celebrating holidays such as Christmas or Easter. You have to believe all that the society tells you to believe.Do JW's have a scriptual basis for dissfellowshiping (excommunicating) someone from their midst?
A
Yes we believe that we do. Now I am not going to ask you to agree with me on these texts but I will give you the Biblical reason as to why some are disfellowshiped. First, when some one becomes a JW they understand what the teachings are in relation to those holiday celebrations. Witnesses are not allowed to be "baptised" on an emotional high. They must understand the basic "doctrines" before baptism. If an individual finds that there is a teaching that they do not agree with or understand why such a line is taken, they are not disfellowshiped. However, if such a person starts to undermine the faith of others but spreading their doubts or by teaching something contrary to the organisation, action will be taken.Q
Yeah right. I've read many accounts on the internet where JWs have been disfellowshiped just for not believing something in the Watchtower.
The first part to the essay I am writting.
This essay is NOT finished yet
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
AND
MIND CONTROL
On the Internet, there are several articles designed to influence readers that Jehovahs Witnesses are under the "control" of the "Watchtower Society" and its "Governing Body". For me, the article that had the most initial influence is one called "A Study of the Persuasion Techniques Used by Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower"
The opening words of this article state "The Watchtower Society utilises manipulative techniques and environment to recruit and maintain their membership. According to Robert Lifton (1961)...... there are eight criteria that are used to evaluate if the environment that people have been subject to has been a mind control totalist environment. The Watchtower was found to utilise each of these criteria to varying degrees in their indoctrination process."
So straight away, before the potential reader starts to analyse this material, they are given a "positive" and "assertive" point of view in favour of the idea that mind control is used. For me, this in itself, is a form of manipulation to get the reader to agree with the writer's ideas. He sets the stage for what is to follow and by using such language and copious "authoritative" quotes, the reader is easily lead to agree with him. I mention this so that when we read other peoples material. ( Including what I have written here ), it may be prudent and advisable to try not to be persuaded by the thoughts of the reader without doing other research to get a balancing view. Do not take for gospel what is written even if it does sound authoritative.
In the quote above the writer refers to a Robert Lifton and his criteria for mind control. The eight criteria that Robert Lifton uses are ..... .(NOTE only a brief description is given here)........
MILIEU CONTROL
the control of the environment and human communication within the environment and control of the communication includes itra-personal control, information and itra-personal thought control.MYSTICAL MANIPULATION
contriving events to give the impression they originate mystically or are a blessing from God.LOADING THE LANGUAGE
the use of a vocabulary peculiar to the group or changing the meanings of words to suit the ideas of the group.DOCTRINE OVER PERSON
the belief of a groups ideology is all important, whether it aligns with reality and experiences or not.THE SACRED SCIENCE
here the organization or group proclaims it alone has absolute truth, scientifically, psychologically and morally, and there is no valid alternatives.THE CULT OF CONFESSION
members are encouraged to confess nonconforming thoughts, feelings, and actions to the group as an act of self surrender and a display of loyalty to the groups ideas.THE DEMAND FOR PURITY
the absolute goal is purification according to the groups criteria.THE DISPENSING OF EXISTENCE
its members are part of the elect who are walking in the truth, while all others are in the dark and therefore are not worthy to existThe author of the article also uses the theories of Steven Hassan who wrote a book entitled "Combating Cult Mind Control."
In this essay I am not going to go into detail of all these theories. This is just the start to get something on my site relating to the subject. At this stage I want to give an overview of a Biblical response to the idea of Mind Control.
First, something about the author of that article that took my interest. The Original article ( it has been updated ) started by saying that it was "A research report submitted to ........... College, Adelaide by ............... , as the Directed Study Project component for the degree of Bachelor of Arts in Christian Counselling......" According to his paper his contact at that time were visits over "four months a young Jehovah's Witness has been visiting me in the hope of converting me. He has shown me articles that have, at face value, been very impressive, and given persuasive, complicated, factual and philosophical arguments to justify his beliefs."
I mention the above for the following reasons
From his article, it would appear as if he had a copy of the 1995 Watchtower CD library, because he quotes from it, evidently to give an "authoritative" presentation. He also use's quotes from several books by EX JWs and others writers. It would also appear, from the way that he expressed himself, that he misunderstood some of the beliefs and writings of JWs. (some of them will be discussed in later updates of this material)
Something else that bothered me, was the way he presented the whole argument. If he never "claimed to be Christian" ( as it appears he is, by getting a degree in "Christian Counselling" ), I could fully understand his point of view. For me, the reasoning he uses would make more sense if they originated from an atheist" or "communist", because of their general distain for religion. I found that the people that shouted the loudest about JWs using mind control claimed to be "Christian"
It is a possibility that, like a lot of people, he takes the idea of the gift of "free will" from our creator to mean we have "absolute" free will. But that is another topic.
In his reasoning ( along with others that say they are Christians ) I would have expected him to show scripturally why JWs were under the influence of a "dangerous" mind control situation. Instead no Scriptures are used ( except in quotes from the Watchtower Publications ) and he uses copious quotes from EX JWs and "cult experts" and "mind control experts", most of whom do not put into context JW beliefs.
Having said that now down to my response.
The next portion is set out as a Question and Answer discussion between myself, and, someone that holds to the idea of "mind control" ( This discussion as presented below never took place, but, it is based on conversations that I have had )
QAre Jehovah's Witnesses under the influence of Mind ControlA To that specific question, I must give a resounding YES , and, at the same time a very definite NO QHey!! you seem a bit confused. How can you say bothYES and NO?A The NO is in relation to the kind of mind control that essay was trying ( very effectively mind you ) to portray. The YES, is that Jehovah's Witness use their "free will" to voluntarily come under the "mind control" as set out in the Bible . QAt this point, you just agreed with the idea that JWs are under mind control. However, you try to justify your position by saying that this is in regard to the Bible, we, though, say it is to an "organization". By the way, where does the Bible talk about being under "mind control" ?A I can understand your reluctance to set aside what others have to say in regard to JWs being controlled by a group of men in Brooklyn, New York, but I am asking you now to try to see things the way we do. I am not asking you to "agree, or, "conform" to the way we see things, just understand them so that you can be in a better position to determine if the "mind control" I refer to is "evil", or, "beneficial".I would like you to consider a few texts with me. I will not use the New World Translation but
the Revised Standard Version (RSV) and the New International Version (NIV) The Living
Bible (LB) Today's English Version (TEV) Phillips Modern English (PME) Jerusalem Bible (JB)
New English Bible (NEB). Authorised Version 1769 (AV). Young's Literal Translation 1898
(YLT). Weymoth New Testament 1912 (WEY). Rotherham Bible 1902 (Roth). Revised Webster
Bible 1995 (RWEBS). Unless stated otherwise all bold and italics and underlining in the
following texts are mine.
Rom 12:2 Do not be conformed to the world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable. RSV
...... Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind NIV
...... Let God transform you inwardly by a complete change of your mind TEV
...... Don't copy the behaviour and customs of this world, but be a new and a different person L.B.
...... Let God remake you so that your whole attitude of mind is changed PME
...... let your behaviour change, moulded by your new mind JB
...... but let your mind be remade NEB.
The Greek word for "MIND" in the above is "noose". According to Strings word No. 3563 this word means "intellect by implication mind, understanding". This same word is used at 1 Corinthians 2:16 which says, "we have the mind of Christ" (KJV. TEV. NIV JB. RSV.) "we have the thoughts of Christ" (PME) and "possess the mind of Christ" (NEB)
What that is telling JWs, is, that when we accept Christ as our saviour, and decide that we want to follow him, a change has to occur in us. We have to stop copying the behaviour, customs pattern and attitude of the world and transform, change, make new our minds and thoughts to comply with Gods will as patterned by his son Jesus.
( This, in effect is the bases of my reply. Are JWs being transformed by the Bible or by an "organization"? Only you, the reader can make that decision for yourself, based on what you read here and on other sites. )Another interesting Greek word that bears heavily on this discussion is "phroneo" Strongs Word No. 5426 and means "to exercise the mind, i.e. entertain or have a sentiment or opinion; by implication to be (mentally) disposed (more or less earnestly in a certain direction):interns. To interests oneself in (with concern of obedience): set the affection on"
Please note a couple of ways the word is used, as they have a bearing on why JWs "insist" on every one teaching the same things without personal opinion. ( Please notices the highlighting of the teaching. This is to emphasis that point. If we see things differently to the "society" we do not teach personal opinion but stay by what the "society" teach) This is particularly the case of Philippians 4:2. The other texts are mentioned to give a balance as to how the same word for mind is used.
Romans 12:16 Be of the same mind. (KJV) Have the same concern for all alike (TEV) Live in harmony (NIV; RSV) Work happily together (LB)
Philippians 2:5 let this mind be you, which was in Christ Jesus (KJV) the attitude you should have is this..(TEV ; LB and NIV. say similar) have this mind among yourselves (RSV) in your minds you must be the same as Christ Jesus ??? let your bearing towards one another... (NEB)
Philippians 4:2 That you be of the same mind in the Lord (KJV) please with the Lords help quarrel no more (LB) to agree with each other (NIV) I beg you by name to make up your differences(PME) Come to agreement with each other (JB)
From all those examples on the use of the word MIND, JWs see that the apostles were telling those first century Christian that wanted to be "footstep followers" of Christ, that they needed a change of ("intellect" or "understanding") belief in the way they lived, and entertain the sentiments become mentally disposed and to interest oneself in (the concerns) of the Christ. They had to stop their quarrelling and differences of opinions and come into line with the thinking of Christ. This change included what one believed in before ( the audience Jesus spoke to were predominantly Jewish. This meant that they had to change from the ideas taught by their religious leaders at that time to the ones taught by Jesus ) as well as ones way of life.
If that was the case back then, then if people wanted to follow the Christ today and be "Christian", should not those ones speak in agreement with each other without divisions? To get this "mind of Christ" or this new intellect or understanding, effort and time is needed, usually from a teacher who can persuade an individual to accept this new way of thinking.
QThere, you agree with me, youdouse persuasion techniques in recruitment of new JWs, you just said that a teacher has topersuadean individual. A In the Biblical sense, YES. The words persuade (d) (ing) are used several times in the Bible. There are two Greek words that are translated so as to mean persuade. First, Strongs word No. 3129 means to understand learn, and 3982 To convince (right or wrong) confidence, obey trust persuade- yield. Lets look up some texts that use 3982Acts 18:4 talking about Paul "And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath and persuaded the Jews and Greeks" ( KJV) The TEV LB and NEV use the word "convince" The NIV; PNE; RSV; AV; DBY; ROTH; RWEBS; use the word "persuade". The BBE says "turning". The WEY says "tried to win over" and the J.B says "convert"
Acts 19:8 "Disputing and persuading the things concerning the Kingdom of God" (KJV;AV) "persuading" (LB) "trying to convince" (TEV) "arguing persuasively" (NIV; JB) "reasoning and teaching" (BBE)
Other texts to look up are Acts 26:26; Acts 28:23; Romans 14:14; 2 Corinthians 5:11.
Paul had to "convince - persuade" "new converts" by reasoning with the people from Gods word (Acts 17:2; 18:4 18:19). Paul, like Jesus, used every day examples or illustrations as their "technique" in "teaching" or "persuading" their listeners to believe what they had to say. Jesus was well known for his teaching ( persuasion ) abilities by using illustrations that his audience could relate too. Some times he used illustrations that sorted out the motive as to why people followed him. The best example of this is recorded at John 6:54 56. Many stopped following him because his speech was repugnant to them.
Today JWs use simple word and picture illustrations to demonstrate what the Bible teaches. Most of these are powerful in that they can effect the way we feel or think about a subject ( Just as Jesus did ). So, I Must ask a question here for you to answer to yourself.
If a person claims to be a footstep follower of Jesus, is it wrong for them to teach in the same manner that he did?
The powerful persuasion and convincing techniques that Jesus and his disciples used changed the very personalities and way of life of those that let themselves willingly be influenced by "the Word of God" Take these texts as examples. Ephesians 4:20-24 " 20 But YOU did not learn the Christ to be so, 21 provided, indeed, that YOU heard him and were taught by means of him, just as truth is in Jesus, 22 that YOU should put away the old personality which conforms to YOUR former course of conduct and which is being corrupted according to his deceptive desires; 23 but that YOU should be made new in the force actuating YOUR mind, 24 and should put on the new personality which was created according to Gods will in true righteousness and loyalty ." (NWT) I used the NWT here because I think it is more easily understood, but for comparison here are some other versions
according to his deceitful covetings,23 And were to be getting young again in the spirit of your mind,24 And were to put on the man of new mould, who, after God, hath been created in his truthful righteousness and loving kindness. (Roth)
This "new personality", " new man ", " new and better self ", " new mould " had some dramatic effects on people 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 "What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit Gods kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit Gods kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God ." (NWT)
Some in that congregation came from past lives that were not pleasant but by being taught ( persuaded ) and accepting the knowledge of Christ their personalities were transformed.
QI believe that by the grace of our Lord people can change, and I can see what you are trying to say, and, to an extent I follow your reasoning as to the need to be taught especially in relation to the personalities of some of those mentioned in 1 Corinthians. But JWs use manipulative methods such as changing word meanings to suit their doctrines, even going as far as to produce your own Bible with many word changes. They use fear of dissfellowshiping to keep control. They have to turn in members that are doing wrong. If a family member is disfellowshiped, they can never have any contact with them again. They have to report each month what they have done in door knocking or they get into trouble. They can not have freedom of conscience to celebrate birthdays of Christmas. You can not read any other material besides the Watchtower publications. You are told what you can and can not do for entertainment, you are told how to dress, you can not understand the Bible without the Governing Body and if you see something in your Bible reading that is different to what is taught you can be disfellowshiped for it, and, you follow a "false prophet" because the Watchtower has set many predictions that have never come true. That is not to mention all the orthodox teachings you reject such as the Trinity, Hell, immortal soul to name a few.If those things do not add up to Mind control then there is something wrong with our society. God gave us free will to choose what we want to do and all those things show that JWs do not have free will. A Y es, I understand how you can start to think that there is some form of mind control especially when some of things you mention above are so different to practices in other religious groups. Lets go through some of those points one at a time. QOK, let's start by looking at the way you have produced your Bible. When we look at your Bible we can see that you have added words and taking words out. A To what Bible are you comparing the New World Translation to? QMost people that I know used the old King James Bible and your New World Translation is quite different to that Bible. I read an article on the Internet about JW's and mind control and they said that about your Bible, and I quote, "The WT has subtly changed meanings of both contemporary terminology and biblical terminology. The Watchtower does not deny its alteration in language but rather proclaims that it uses 'pure language' taught by Jehovah (WT 15/8/1981:28-29). In Genesis 1:2 in their New World Translation, they translate 'ruach' 'active force' instead of 'spirit' to justify their doctrine that the Holy Spirit is a force, not a person of the Godhead."A Actually, there are two different issues represented in that quote. The first is the "translation" of the word 'ruach' and the other is his linking of the phrase " 'pure language' by Jehovah" Note, he refers his readers to a Watchtower article to support his conclusion. The "pure language is described in that article as " What, then, is this change to a "pure language"? It is a turning to the message of truth, the refreshing "good news," the "pattern of healthful words," that speaks in praise of Jehovah and his righteous purposes by Christ Jesus. (2 Tim. 1:13) This "pure language" unifies them. And it testifies that, in the epoch-marking year 1914, "the kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever." (Rev. 11:15) Taking this message upon their lips, true Christians worldwide "call upon the name of Jehovah" in dedication, harmoniously rendering him "sacred service." As the only truly united people on earth, they go to the homes of the people, heralding forth the "good news" of Jehovahs established kingdom. Thus they serve Jehovah "shoulder to shoulder." (Matt. 24:14; Rom. 12:1) Are you one who has thus separated yourself from the world, to serve God zealously in dedication to Him? It is by thus working along with Jehovahs organized people that you may "get away safe."Joel 2:32; see also Hosea 14:1, 2; Hebrews 13:15." That is getting away from the point at hand so , for now, lets just look at the translation of the word "ruach". In the King James version this Hebrew word "ruach" appears 378 times and is used in various ways. For instance it is translated asspirit 232 times, wind 92, breath 27, side 6, mind 5, blast 4, vain 2, air 1, anger 1, cool 1, courage 1, plus 6 other ways. According to Strongs Conordance the meanings of "ruach" are as follows.. 1) wind, breath, mind, spirit 1a) breath 1b) wind 1b1) of heaven 1b2) quarter (of wind), side 1b3) breath of air 1b4) air, gas 1b5) vain, empty thing 1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation) 1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour 1c2) courage 1c3) temper, anger 1c4) impatience, patience 1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented) 1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse 1c7) prophetic spirit 1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals) 1d1) as gift, preserved by God, Gods spirit, departing at death, disembodied being 1e) spirit (as seat of emotion) 1e1) desire 1e2) sorrow, trouble 1f) spirit 1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts 1f2) rarely of the will 1f3) as seat especially of moral character Strongs works do add another and final meaning,
