witness response to mind control information (page 2)

julien

Ties in with the process of confession -- one must confess when one is not conforming
TO HIMSELF, then to God. We don't run to the elders for absolution.

Typical JW half-truth. It's like saying "I get high on life. I don't smoke dope to get high" (although I do smoke it to relax).

No JW would ever think it was OK to confess "TO HIMSELF, then to God." after commiting a serious sin. Maybe for the meaningless little crap in the 'strain out a gnat' category: eg, I accidentally used the word "lucky" today.. But for the big stuff you go straight to the elders, you don't get forgiven by god otherwise. Period. Call it what you will besides absolution, but don't give me this BS like it's between you and God..

Jang

David, he is using a lot of Red Herrings to get around the main point.

Thought Reform as a retraining of our own mind with full understanding of what is happening is one thing: Thought reform done with coercion of any kind by another person, with the use of manipulation without our consent, is another thing.

Lifton did his research purely on what he saw happened to prisoners of the Koreans in the early 50's. Many had been turned to their way of thinking but none were tortured into it .... he worked to understand the process ....

I am going to download your long missive etc and will try and answer it for you and will post it e-mail ....

JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/

D wiltshire

Dear Jang,

Thank for your help I've use your site often there is some really good stuff on it. I've mail some of your material to witnesses that I know.
I like to use the stuff that doesn't talk about JWs maybe they will read it. I send that the first mailing and the second I send more specific material. Trying to keep their mind open.

D wiltshire

I've just recieve what appears to be a final response from my freind with reguards to our corresponce on the subject of mind control, he writes:

You are become death,
destroyer of worlds.

Emails refused.

ofcmad

You will not accomplish nothing.

A freudian slip perhaps?

ofcmad

"Noah was a drunk and look what he accomplished." The Metatron/Dogma

Enlighted UK

quote:
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What is the "'gravest of human threats" that the society presents to the world. Is it that we will live in peace in perfect health and happiness forever? That we should love one another and take care of each other and forgive each other? That we have the obligation to invite everyone to enjoy those terrible evils? Perhaps the threat is that mankind should be free of crime, disease, hunger, suffering, death, old age, poverty, hate and war. You have to judge a tree by it's fruits.
(a brief outline)

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Love one another and TAKE CARE OF ONE ANOTHER - oh yes that is why you are supposed to let your child die because of refusing a blood transfusion that someone else has freely donated???? But of course if you are still buying into the "promise" of "just around the corner" resurrection and everlasting life, then all these people dying unnecessarily won't be a problem to you. Don't worry that it will screw you up in the meantime.

Sorry, just my thoughts.

Enlighted UK

thinker

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - Confucius

"The mind is everything. What you think you become." - Buddha

D wiltshire

BTTT

Quotes

D wiltshire, I've not read the entire letter you copied, but from what I read it does seem like your friend is using various logical fallacies in attempting to dismiss your allegations of cultic activities among the JW organization.

I'm not sure if you saw the "Cult" thread where I attempted to get "BLEEP" to actually answer some questions about CULTs and his knowledge of cults. Things get interesting on page 3: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=34246&page=3&site=3

Spening some time at http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies (Logical Fallacies list) may prove useful to help identify exactly how your friend is using false logic.

The thing I try to keep in mind is that "cult" should not be a yes/know, on/off digital thing. That is a type of false dichotomy that cults are famous for! We shouldn't fall into the same trap. Rather, think of a scale, with "totally non-cult" at one end and "very very cultish and dangerous" at the other. Then think that every group or organization is on the scale. Then, it is a question of "where on the scale do JWs fall". True, they don't spend 18 hours per day listening to David Koresh rant (like the Branch Davidians did) but that does not mean they are not a cult. Other social dynamics are cultish and tend to push the group toward the "cultish" end of the scale.

It may also help to show your friend some of the "fine spiritual food" the WTBTS has "provided at the proper time". I have a collection at my website, free of "apostate" material and ready for "approved" reading by any JW in good standing. Send him over!

~Quotes

http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/

Edited by - Quotes on 21 August 2002 22:46:5

Quotes

Jehovah God put many different psychological processes into us humans. He designed them in -- that they will operate in a perfect world for our benefit. Now this isn't a perfect world. True CULT leaders CAN take advantage of these psychological mechanisms for their own advantage. That doesn't mean those psych. mechanisms are inherently BAD. It means only that evil people can and do misuse them. God CAN RIGHTEOUSLY use them for our good.

True, but it raises the question: how can you tell the difference? How do we know that JWs are using these techniques for "our good"???

Put another way, ask your friend if any of his defence would make sense defending, say, The Moonies? They could use similar arguments to "prove" they are not a cult, but would your friend believe it when the Moonies say it? Why not? What's the difference?

witness response to mind control information

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