Baptist funerals vs. JW funerals

by jws 13 Replies latest jw friends

  • jws
    jws

    I went to a funeral at a 1st Baptist church this past weekend. It was for the son of a former co-worker. Travis was 18 and was about to start his senior year in high school. He was a starter on the football team and was being courted by different colleges for scholarships. He had a bright future ahead of him. Last Monday morning, he and a friend were driving to the gym and hit a patch of water on the road (doing only 45 mph in a 40 mph zone), hydroplaned, flipped their pickup and both died of injuries.

    I don't think I ever met Travis, but I worked with his mother for several years until she was let go due to reorganization a few months ago. Having children of my own, I know how precious children are and how much they mean to their parents. I'm not a big one for funerals, especially of people I never met. But knowing the mother, I felt the need to go, to let his mother know people care and try to ease some of her pain.

    The services were held at the Baptist church. The church was 3 or 4 times larger than any Kingdom Hall I've ever seen and it was packed with family, church members, classmates, and friends of the family. Maybe the old JW in me took over, but I felt a need to count this crowd. I took a quick count by multiplying # of people in a pew by number of pews. I'd guess somewhere between 750 - 800 people were there. I don't think I've ever seen a JW funeral with more than 300 or 400 attending. But then again, I'm sure the circumstances had a lot to do with the crowd (being a popular high school kid, having a large family, attending a large church, and his mother spending years working for a large corporation). I've also been to 'worldy' funerals for older people where the turnout was comparable to a JW funeral.

    The service itself had a lot of elements to help soothe the mourners. The lights were dimmed in the balcony. Soothing background music played beforehand. A touching video played, showing pictures of Travis from being a newborn to present day with inspirational music accompanying the slideshow. It was hard to keep a dry eye. Songs were sung. Friends and family talked about Travis and shared their hope of seeing him in Heaven. Their pastor (or whatever it is called by Baptists) spoke of why this can happen and be part of God's plan. He spoke of Travis's belief in Jesus. While some of it was a disguised sales pitch, it was still very moving and very comforting. Even the sales pitch was simple: Travis had Jesus. Don't get in your car and take the risk of death without accepting Jesus as well. It wasn't a particularly "Baptist" sales pitch. Just a Christian one.

    I've been to various JW funerals, some with services at the funeral home, others with the service at the Kingdom Hall. I don't think any of them ever held a candle to the words of comfort I heard this past weekend.

    Usually they start off telling some basic facts about the person. They don't go too far, because they don't want to praise the person, even though they're dead and won't get a big head about it and think themselves self-important.

    Then they tell you that the person had the "HOPE" of a resurrection. Not that they were saved or that they were going to be resurrected, just that you hoped to be. Hey, I "hope" I win a billion dollars, but I don't expect to. Not much comfort to the mourners there. No being reassured that the deceased is going on to their hope. Not that any church can say for certain what happens after death and they could all be wrong. But to reassure fellow believers that the deceased is in that better place now is comforting. Of course there is a whole world of difference between the "accept Jesus and be saved" doctrine vs. the JW's and their Jewish-like "work, work, work, work and uphold the 'law' - and then maybe you'll be saved" doctrine. JW mourners are told that their relative is nothing more than worm-food and have no consciousness. How comforting! And then maybe, someday, God will bring them back, if they don't have too many strikes against them (like missing meetings and field service while battling cancer). Of course the message to JWs is that there are no guarantees with God. Do what the Society tells you to so that when you die, you boost your chances of a resurrection.

    Then the JWs go on to justify this "hope" of a resurrection and explain why they believe in that, criss-crossing the Bible from old testament to new, to pluck scriptures out of context to support this belief. All of this is spoken in a respectful and very boring tone. Nobody is moved and 90% of the audience is already JW. They already believe this crap and are getting very bored by now. The despair on their faces has nothing to do with the pain of their loss anymore, it has to do with the speaker going on and on.

    Finally, the invitation is presented to come to a Kingdom Hall. I don't remember if it's common, but I think meeting times are sometimes announced. Though the Baptist preacher did try to 'sell' religion, he only asked people that if they didn't have Jesus, to talk to somebody about that. He didn't tell them to come to this particular brand of religion or church and he did not announce the times of any church services. And he didn't try to tell you your religion was wrong. His message was believing in Jesus, no matter what religion. Now if you did go to talk to one of the people they had available, they might push the Baptist religion and give you the times for their services. But overall, they showed respect by keeping this stuff out of the service. I always felt embarassed when the JWs used their platform as a sales pitch. I thought it showed a lack of class and respect.

  • Mary
    Mary

    Every been to a Catholic funeral?..........I went to one several years ago and I was pretty much disgusted. The priest was up there and I'm sure he must have a standard form that he reads after inserting the deceased's name in there. Just a bunch of nothing and it was all the insane rehearsed prayers, crossing themselves a million times and trying to invoke Mother Mary throughout.

    The Epescopilians weren't too bad..............they use the scriptures that the GB reserve for only the 144,000 like 1 Corinthians 15. I agree that it's far more comforting to think that your loved one is in heaven and NOT rotting away in the ground....I'm not sure where the Witnesses get that that's more comforting that what the churches offer.

    The one thing that alot of Witnesses do now that I prefer is when they have a private family burial and then a memorial service given at the Hall. I don't like sitting there staring at a coffin during a funeral talk.

  • Undaunted Danny
    Undaunted Danny

    Touching thread jws,I can identify with what your saying.My experiences below

    {fore note:because I was Dfed (wrongfully) in early 1992 I was not allowed by the bastard control freak jw elders to learn of my beloved (blind) JW mom's long illness and subsequent death.I wasn't even invited to the funeral.I did not learn EVEN WHAT YEAR [2002] she died until the govt. database came up to speed,and i found out for myself.

    Now,yah'll tell me who is this malicious and cruel hearted except the Jehovah's Witnesses cult?

    Would even despised extremist organizations like,the Taliban,KKK.,neo-Nazi skinheads,or even Charles Manson do this?

    About grieving the dearly departed JW style:

    1 Thessalonians 4:13 nt : The Lord's Coming 13My friends, we want you to understand how it will be for those followers who have already died. Then you won't grieve over them and be like people who don't have any hope. ( CEV ){{Then you won't grieve over them.}} The Watchtower's counsel on the grieving process for obedient Jehovah's Witnesses:."we don't grieve like worldings who have no hope''.. About grieving the dearly departed JW style.I know of family's who have never come to terms with their losses because they expect their loved ones to come back in the resurrection any day. That day of horrendous sudden impact to accept that it's all a lie is a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. SURROGATE/DISPLACEMENT RAGE a.k.a. the, "BOMB".....
  • doogie
    doogie
    The priest was up there and I'm sure he must have a standard form that he reads after inserting the deceased's name in there. Just a bunch of nothing and it was all the insane rehearsed prayers, crossing themselves a million times and trying to invoke Mother Mary throughout.

    mary-

    i'm not catholic, but i feel i need to say something here. just because we don't agree with something doesn't mean that it's "a bunch of nothing." i'm sure if you were catholic you would have found it a very encouraging service. then again, i wasn't there so i have little right to comment, but i just think that freedom of religion has to include tolerance of practices that we personally do not receive benefit from.

    for all intents and purposes, i am agnostic but just because i am doesn't mean that those who are not can't derive some benefit from the practice of their religion.

    just my two cents...

  • Nocturne
    Nocturne

    I went to a jw funeral recently...it's quite shocking how similar these things are, although I'll disagree with them making it sound as though it isn't a guarrantee with ressurection. The speaker made it clear they would see the deceased again after the ressurection since the current doctrine is that if you die, all your sins are washed away.

    But anyways, I'll go through what happened at the funeral I went to. They first had a small service at the funeral home, where they gave small details about the persons life for 3-4 mins, then the speaker went on to talk about the ressurection for 25 minutes. Then the next day at the funeral, another elder gave the eulogy, and the same thing happened, 5 mins about the person's life, then a good half hour talking about the ressurection hope. Then you'd think people had enough by then, but they had what was the longest prayer ever (You know those really long prayers they have at the end of the DC that last forever, well it was longer then that) basically summarizing what was said in the eulogy. And then they invited those would like to know more about the hope of ressurection to ask a jw for a free personal bible study.

    Then you would think people had truly heard enough speeches on the jw ressurection doctrine, at the cemetary, he still gave a little recap on it. So in total, about 8-9 mins were spent talking about the deceased, and well over an hour were spent "teaching" the jw ressurection doctrine.

  • Cicatrix
    Cicatrix

    I've been to three funerals at two different Baptist churches (I was "naughty" and attended them when I was JW, lol), and they were very different in style.

    The first two experiences were very much like the one you described.The pastor knew the two people very well, and said many kind things about them. It was as much a celebration of their lives as it was a time to commemorate their passing. There was actually NO attempt to get people to "come to Jesus" at this church at all, which surprised me (I had attended Baptist churches as a child).

    The last experience was outrageous. It took place at the church that my brother and sister-in-law attend. It was for my step-mother-in-law, who was actually, ironically, Methodist all her life.

    The pastor was of the "hell and brimstone type," and there was me,(a known JW), my husband and kids,and several other unchurched members of the family(including my father-in-law)-a great "captive audience" for the pastor.He said very little about my mother-in-law. He didn't know her, so I assume he was reading whatever information my brother and sister-in-law had given him. Then he proceeded to claim that all who did not "believe on the lord Jesus Christ" as being part of the triune god head were doomed to burn forever in hell (and looked directly at my children and I when he said this). He went on for several minutes,graphically describing the horrors of hell (not all of it scriptures, either),which those who weren't working hard on their relationship with the triune Jesus, and towards their salvation would experience.

    My children (who were pretty young) were literally sinking down in the pews at the force of his venomous little speech. I just sat there shocked for a moment, watching the spit literally flying out of his mouth (we had been "conveniently" seated in the second row of pews by my deacon brother-in-law), then I did the most irreverant thing I've ever done in my life-I laughed out loud at my poor step-mom-in-law's funeral! I couldn't help it, it just kind of came out when I saw that spit flying. I then grabbed the copy of the Bible that was in the pew, and started flipping it to different scriptures, and read them to my kids quietly. That calmed them down, and visibly shook up the preacher, who actually added something to his little spiel about God being the one to judge. I just looked at him firmly and nodded in agreement, and my kids smiled, as that was one of the scriptures I'd showed them-"judge not lest ye be judged."

    This guy's antics not only upset me, my kids,and my husband, they also upset the other unchurched family members, especially my father-in-law (he and I agree on very little, but we do have a similar opinion about hell and brimstone preachers, lol).He won't step foot in any church now, and I can't say as I blame him. Worse than that, it really ruined my mother-in-law's funeral. She was a wonderful, loving, kind woman, and she didn't deserve that kind of funeral talk. She was a very Christian woman, and she NEVER EVER would have condoned anyone talking to her family members in that fashion!

    The saddest part is, I later learned that my brother and sister-in-law's animosity had very little to do with my being a JW, and very much to do with the fact that my father-in-law had sold the family business and home to my husband and I.I suspect this little "performance" was a bit of a pay back for that.

    Danny-That is just SO WRONG that someone didn't notify you!! It certainly shows the amount of control they wish to exhibit and a total lack of love and concern on their part. They preach that everyone should "love their enemies," but I guess they don't include themselves in that catagory. Theocratic warfare and all, ya know. BARF.

    Anyway, I'm so sorry for the loss of your mom!

  • jws
    jws
    because I was Dfed (wrongfully) in early 1992 I was not allowed by the bastard control freak jw elders to learn of my beloved (blind) JW mom's long illness and subsequent death.I wasn't even invited to the funeral.I did not learn EVEN WHAT YEAR [2002] she died until the govt. database came up to speed,and i found out for myself.

    I find their conduct inexcusable on so many levels, starting with forcing your seperation in the first place. I would think they'd at least tell you, in the hopes that (in their eyes), your mother's fate would cause you to re-examine your position - that when you sit through their service/prostelyzing, you would decide to come back. I've seen that sort of thing happen to JWs that have been away. Something shakes them up and they decide to come back. I'm sorry to hear of that. Everyone wants the chance to see their loved ones on a regular basis and not to let years elapse.

    Every been to a Catholic funeral?..........I went to one several years ago and I was pretty much disgusted. The priest was up there and I'm sure he must have a standard form that he reads after inserting the deceased's name in there. Just a bunch of nothing and it was all the insane rehearsed prayers, crossing themselves a million times and trying to invoke Mother Mary throughout.

    Actually, I have. It's true that it was not as uplifting as the Baptist one I was just to, but I found it very interesting. I think mainly because it was so wierd to actually be inside of a Catholic church for a ceremony. I found the traditions foreign and interesting. At one point, they had some steaming cup on a chain that they waved over the casket. I couldn't help but feel it was like something I was seeing on the Discovery channel where some tribe is making some symbolic ritual jesture. It seemed so far from Christianity in some ways. All in all, it was very ritual, just like the JWs said. I did get a very strong sense of God, however. The history of the Catholic Church and Christianity seemed to emmanate from all around in a way that it doesn't in other churches and not at all in a Kingdom Hall.

  • Mary
    Mary
    Doogie said: just because we don't agree with something doesn't mean that it's "a bunch of nothing." i'm sure if you were catholic you would have found it a very encouraging service. then again, i wasn't there so i have little right to comment, but i just think that freedom of religion has to include tolerance of practices that we personally do not receive benefit from.

    Hey, I'm all for freedom of speech and freedom of religion, but I've heard Catholics themselves complain about the funeral services. Even if I were a Catholic, I really don't think I would find much comfort in the way they conduct a funeral service----very, very cold they spent more time with their traditions than what they did talking about the dearly departed.

  • MelbaToast
    MelbaToast

    Undaunted Danny:

    Im so sorry you had to find out about your mom that way. How much more painful can a loss get?

    my $.02:

    My JW father died in 2001. He was cremated, and they had a "memorial" for him at my moms KH. So I had to go, because I was the daughter and mom did not involve her kids in the final funeral arrangements. She was catatonic for the most part. But the kicker was that the elder that gave the memorial eulogy said "Im sure Patty(my mom) and Lief (my brother) and their two daughters (Me and My Sister who are both df'd) can use our encouragement"

    What a loving arrangement WHEN THEY WONT EVEN UTTER YOUR NAME. (sorry it makes me scream just thinking about it)

    Even funnier: Lots of people from the congregation came to my moms house afterward. Not one (excluding family and my dads worldly friends) JW would even express their sorrow to me or my sis. The rest of my family saw it and they were disgusted. I went outside and drank a beer and smoked a cigarette in the garage while they were there. THen I came in the house and stared at all of em. I made sure that they would be as uncomfortable as possible.

  • cyber-sista
    cyber-sista
    because I was Dfed (wrongfully) in early 1992 I was not allowed by the bastard control freak jw elders to learn of my beloved (blind) JW mom's long illness and subsequent death.I wasn't even invited to the funeral.I did not learn EVEN WHAT YEAR [2002] she died until the govt. database came up to speed,and i found out for myself.

    Danny...I'm always sad and infuriated when I read about this one. This is just plain inhuman and I am so sorry that you were treated like this. My belated sympathy and condolenses to you.

    Even funnier: Lots of people from the congregation came to my moms house afterward. Not one (excluding family and my dads worldly friends) JW would even express their sorrow to me or my sis. The rest of my family saw it and they were disgusted. I went outside and drank a beer and smoked a cigarette in the garage while they were there. THen I came in the house and stared at all of em. I made sure that they would be as uncomfortable as possible.

    Melba...Do JWs even realize what a terrible witness they are giving to the outside world when they see people being treated like this? This is not human decency in any stretch of the imagination. To imagine in their minds that this is something that is giving glory to their God should clue them in on the fact that the WT God is not a merciful one. My belated sympathy and condolenses to you too.

    PS. At the last KH funeral/memorial I went to a sister sat by the door with a table full of literature such as the track "What hope for dead loved ones?" Even though I was still in the Org this made me feel strangely uncomfortable. The talk was the typical sales pitch too.

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