Pedophile JC Analysis

by Amazing 47 Replies latest jw friends

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  Amazing

  Hello Humble:

  Your experience was different then mine. I was using averages. Mine number could be higher or lower, I really cannot prove my statistics, I can only speak from my own experiences.

  You didn't say whether you were an Elder or what you position was. If you served, and held one of the three Service Positions, PO, FSO, or SEC, then you would know what the JC files looked like. It could be than in the many Hispanic congregation you were in were more inclined to accept statements of repentance from those who might be DF'd in Anglo congregations. But, your total JC files might have been about average to Anglo congregations.

  I also noticed that you have been in a number of congregatins with fewer than average number of Elders. Believe it or not, this does have an impact as to how much time and attention these men can devote to JC matters. Yes, I am ebgaging in conjecture here, but I have know way of knowing from the few details you give just what the governing factors are.

  You say that I was the problem? As an Elder, I have admitted that I made errors many times. But, I do not cause men and women to take their cloths off and commit fornication or adultery or child molestation. That is something they do on their own. - Amazing
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  waiting

  hey humble,

  My post is probably going to get lost in the shuffle - because I'm not going to insult you - and I've found that insulted people answer the insulters usually - not the ones who would like to talk to them.

  But it does not prove that every Witness including myself and my family are perverts and child molesters.

  You are absolutely right. We can only talk about personal experience. As I stated above, I talked only about the congregation I currently have membership (in good standing). When I spoke about my daughter being molested by a ms (in good standing) - that was my previous congregation. He was also raping his own daughter and was never even met with by the elders - his wife threatened to sue if the elders even mentioned the words "incest, molestation." His daughter had left home several years before - and finally wrote a long letter to the elders about her father. I called about my then-grown daughter when she told me. I know all this because the PO was a friend of mine and he told me all this. Yes, I did go to the police.

  It doesn't happen all the time - but it does happen and we have no reason to believe that rape/incest happens any less within the congregation than society at large. We know that divorce, depression, etc., happen in the approximate same ratio - it would follow logically for other problems also.

  Amazing showed in another post about elders who were concerned for a young woman - went out of their way to help her. We have other elders (former or still active) here who are good men. It was never meant to show that all elders were bad all the time.

  It was meant to show that rape/child molestation is a major problem in society and in the congregation - and for the good of the child, needs to be brought out into the open.

  Jehovah does permit certain things in his organization.

  If you are an elder, I hope you have enough insight to never use this line of reasoning with a rape victim or his/her parents. It's no different than telling the parents of a dead child that God wanted another angel. Or God has a plan. Or God is testing you by letting your child die.

  If your child is raped, sometimes for years, ask them how they felt when an elder said that "Jehovah permitted your raping."

  Knowing of his reputation, it would be better for God not to exist. Author unknown

  Btw, humble, in all these seven congregations, were you the PO and did you sit in on every judicial committee formed? If not, then your opinion is just heresay.

  waiting
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  ianao

  Oh boy! I can smell the crap now.

  AlanF: Your insults shows proof of why Jehovah cleansed the organization of you.

  No, his insults show that he thinks you are a lousy JW apologist.

  MommieDark: You are accusing all Witnesses of being perverts. That is just silly and in the Bible it's called slander. I only stated the facts about the congregations that I served in.

  Don't recall MommieDark ever saying that. Of course, you must rationalize your stance in any means possible I guess.

  Dedalus: Gal. 6:7.

  No bible at work, no comment.

  bjc2012: Jehovah does permit certain things in his organization. He did in Job's case, also he permitted Judas to go on stealing from Jesus' funds. I agree with all of you that child abuse is horrible and they should hang all those that practice it. At the same time I realize that jehovah is in control of the situation and whether there is a child abuser outside the organization or inside, he is dead meat. Jehovah's Witnesses try to handle the matters according to Jehovah's laws and Caesars (government laws). Have elders screwed up when taking care of these people? Sure. But it does not prove that every Witness including myself and my family are perverts and child molesters.

  Don't recall anyone ever saying that or even implying that. Looks like you are rationalizing your stance by any means possible again. *shrug*.

  SixofNine: Maybe your right that the spanish congregations are in better shape. I have no reason for lying, those are the facts about the congregations I attended. I know that it is only 7 of them, but my point was to show that not all congregations have the problems that most of the posters on this board describe. Maybe the question is: is Jehovah's spirit in all congregations? Personally, I don't think so.

  One wonders how quickly you would be booted on your butt for publicly admitting such a viewpoint. (Of course that's why it's your personal opinion, right?)

  Humble, if imperfect men comprise and are running the organization, then the organization is imperfect. Plain and simple. Assertion that God is directing an organization of imperfect humans is just as dogmatic coming from you as it is from a catholic or protestant.

  Nothing wrong with a good dogma every now and again, but please stop making excuses for your corrupt leaders. It makes them look bad for ordering it's cover-up and it makes YOU look bad for defending their actions.
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  humble

  Amazing: I have to admit that I like the way you express yourself. You have a gift as a writer. I understand your point of view. Of course, I don't agree with you in the matter of leaving the organization, but then we all have the right to make choices. As an elder, I will not leave Jehovah's sheep alone. I will always try to give them the help they ask for. Yes, in all 7 congregations I served as the presiding overseer, in Nicaragua as a missionary. I have to agree to a certain point that many Witnesses try to follow the Society word for word. I don't think that is right, the information is there for our guidance and counsel, but in many areas we have to make our own choices. In regards to elders, it is true that many of them are screw ups. The Society gives them information and counsels them about being loving, understanding and helping the sheep, but many elders do not listen. That, is in Jehovah's hands.

  Waiting:

  Thank you for the post. You make some logical statements. By the comment "Jehovah permits things to happen" I mean that Jehovah would like to act in our favor right now, but at the same time he has to deal with Satan and his accusations. Jehovah waits, is he sad, yes he is. He has feelings like us. That's why Genesis says that we were crated in his image. One thing is for sure, he will act and soon. All those that abuse children will get what they deserve. If there are elders that hid them or covered for them, then they will get what they deserve. Jehovah is the God of Justice.

  ianao: You have a right to your own opinion, but don't judge me for having my own.
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  waiting

  Hey Humble,

  I hope you stay around. This is a good place for thinking/debating, even arguing. Some of us get hot-headed, but there are a lot of different threads, make yourself at home.

  We have a "hello, hello," thread started, which give a short background on a lot of the new ones around here. It's grown to around 9 pages long. Please feel free to tell a little or a lot about yourself?

  All those that abuse children will get what they deserve.

  That's no different, imho, than the people of other religions saying "that person thinks he's getting away with his sins. But God'll get him in the End." or..... "But he'll burn in Hell!"

  That does absolutely no good for the raped/molested child. The primary focus, imho, should be on getting the child molester out into the public, out of the congregation, and into the hands of the police so that he can no longer harm children.

  I think we all agree that there are some very good people in/out of the congregations, and that our children need to be protected. There! That's at least a starting point, eh?

  Mankind is made up from two words *mank* and *ind*. No one knows what these words mean - and that's why mankind is such a mystery.

  I'm at work, therefore don't know the authors of the quotes I used. But just wanted to insert a chuckle?

  waiting
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  ianao

  humble:

  You have a right to your own opinion, but don't judge me for having my own.

  Yes, everyone has a right to their own opinion. I don't judge *you* at all. It's your ACTIONS that are the problem. You willingly defend your precious organization and it's policies that prevent the report of pedophilia to the police. I find that highly immoral. What makes it worse is you follow those rules for religious reasons while putting down others for doing likewise in their respective churches. It's just a hypocritical thing to do.
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  humble

  Waiting:

  You are right about the child molesters. They should be turned into the authorities. That is why I mentioned the one case I was involved in, with the child molestor. I called the Legal Dept. and they told me to turn him in, according to Texas law. We did that. I wanted to beat the hell out of that guy, but we can't all act like animals. I think in a small way, justice was made.

  I agree that we must protect the children in the congregations. Being in the spanish congregation, we have many young ones. I see each one as my child and I would do whatever it takes to protect my children.

  In the other hand, let me throw out a question to debate: Can a child molester ever be reformed?

  ianao:

  Yes, I consider the organization precious because I believe it has Jehovah's approval. The members are imperfect. Are there any changes needed? of course, that's why we wait on the new system. Is it better that being out in the world. I believe so. I would have never known many bible truths if it wasnt for Jehovah's witnesses. That's my personal opinion.
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  bjc2012

  Humble,

  At the same time I realize that jehovah is in control of the situation and whether there is a child abuser outside the organization or inside, he is dead meat.

  Jehovah is in control? The problem is that you are comparing this organization with the first century congregations where Jehovah was in control. These congregations had members who possessed the 'gifts of the spirit.' They were able to identify wrongdoers immediately with the help of holy spirit. Take the case of Ananias and Sapphire. There were not two witnesses to what they did, but their crime was made known by what happened to them.

  You have no example to show that anyone in your organization has any of these gifts of the spirit. Yet, you believe that you can function without these. It's not possible. This type of crime can only be eliminated with help from holy spirit because it is done in secret. No human on his own can ferret out these criminals.

  Determining repentance is also impossible without supernatural help. This is missing from your membership. Your leadership teaches that these gifts passed away with the death of the apostles. So, where is your help?

  So, JWs are doomed to failure in keeping the congregation clean. You will not admit that Jehovah's spirit is not with you, so you will continue to try and justify your inability to do so by blaming Jehovah saying he chooses not to act on behalf of these victims.
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  ianao

  humble:

  Your loyalty to a publishing corporation is commendable (I guess). Unfortunately, since you consider it in Jah's approval (God Almighty), "not bringing reproach upon the congregation" may one day override your sense of "protect[ing] the children in the congregations".

  That's all I'm worried about.
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  humble

  ianao:

  Nothing to worry about. I don't think that because a Witness is prosecuted for being a child molester brings reproach to Jehovah or his organization. If that molester was never disfellowshipped, that would bring reproach. I love reading Bible accounts on how Jesus viewed and treated children, I think we should all strive to copy that model.