by truthseeker1 29 Replies latest watchtower bible
You are all extremely knowledgable and I enjoyed the reading.
Just a little tidbit.....
John 20:24
"Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the NAILS were, and put my hand into his side, I wil not believe it."
Notice the plural in the word "NAILS".
agape love, gold
Leolaia is dead on. In other threads we have discussed the fact that Christians do not appear to have used the cross icon till about the 5th century while other mystery cults had been for hundreds of years. This however has no bearing on whether the Romans of the first century used crucifixion. The real isues are whether there was a man named Jesus that lead some type of movement and was crucified. IMO the evidence does not support these assumed facts. It seems plausible that the deaths by crucifixion of any number of would-be Jewish reformers/rebels became wedded with the mystery cult godmen and the associated solar cross iconography in a marginal apocalyptic Jewish sect. The timing was right for such a hybrid and various sects soon developed from this mongrel some of which still denied the historicity of the crucifixion. The earliest Patristic writings reflect a wide variety of opinions about when, how and even whether Jesus died. The NT was amassed and edited in the second and third centuries to present one almost coherent picture that he was crucified in the first century under Pilate.
BTW . thanks truthseeler1. They are infamous in the scientific community for this type of misquote and mischaracterization.
The earliest Patristic writings reflect a wide variety of opinions about when, how and even whether Jesus died.
What writings?
I'm not getting into it with you hooberus.
This thread is quite interesgting and since a longer time I have made my thinkings about the cross.
At least I guess it was the policy from the judge to find a name for his biblestudents as there were too many others called them biblestudents.
This is like marketing, defining product policy.
To this belongs the stroy of the cross.
For me it is rather clear that Watchtower and history may both have right. The Romans used a pole where they nailed the person on. thsi large pole was always placed on the location of Golgotha. The delinquent who received his death penalty in the City took up his patibulum - the horizontal part of the cross.
So you can say the turture stake and you can say the cross. both may be right but finally, when he hang on it the viewer sees a cross.
Watchtower may recognize this as option but you know - they are concrete heads and such dont change their opinion. they get raped from the podest like those concrete heads behind the former iron curtain - they were put down from the monument.
At least it seems they now allthing from nothing as they shape their testimonials like you see it by the start of this thread.
and I may remind of the Hitler letter from 1933, published in the yb 1934 where you can read how they tried to creep the German leader, Mr Schickelhuber into his brown ass. but they were rejected and those who were so foolish to spread the declaration on their own name were arrested.
Arrested for a dirty policy of a man who made martyrs in case of marketing. A couple of years later the swiss branch declared that JWs stay at the weapeons, so they did not loose their Siwtzerland property but made bad copmpromise like today with the UNgodly organsiation, the image of the beast.
I cant eat as much as I must vomit when I think of the facts behind the reality.
There is a truth behind the truth, this truth is hidden for the normal publisher as he is like in quarantine - forbidden contact to those who know it. And those who know it and are JWs must fear that they get df'd.
That is a practice that dishonours Jehovah who has made us with a free mind. They make us to be slaves of the UNtruth and put on us our own repsonisbility. The slave has the right to give us food at the appropiate time - it is our decision to eat or to reject it.
I guess that is a coward theory that will end very soon, when the ivory towers will fall.
Greetings to those who prove to be searchers
The earliest Patristic writings reflect a wide variety of opinions about when, how and even whether Jesus died.
I believe that this is very incorrect. See for example Ignatius, Justin Martyr, etc.
Debates about the day of death about the shape of the instrument of death whether he survived the crucifixion his age at the time of crucifixion and of cource various Gnostic interpretations of the symbolism and historicity existed and were a key motivation for the collecting and editing the NT books from among the hundreds in circulation.
I may be kind of dense here, but what exactly is the Watchtower's purpose in disputing that Jesus was crucified on cross?
Irishayes: what exactly is the Watchtower's purpose in disputing that Jesus was crucified on cross?
Its simple really, the cross is but one of many such details they fuss about... their agenda for doing so however, is not so trivial: they want to create an ''us'' and ''they'' mentality among the witnesses by putting as much distance as possible between christianity and JWism. They assault any identifying character with brutal force and dont shun ad hominem tactics or blunt misquotes to get there. Then they point to how ''pagan'' many of christendoms treasured symbols are and how enlightened by Gods spirit JWs refuse to use them...
Greven
Very interesting researching L..........thank you!
