Questions regarding the Cross/Torture stake

by truthseeker1 29 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Robert_V_Frazier
    Robert_V_Frazier

    Leolaia wrote:

    I haven't seen any WT literature since 1991, so I really don't know what they've said since or continue to say. I would really love it if someone can post post-1991 stuff where they justify their belief that crux and stauros did not mean cross.

    There hasn't been all that much, and what there is just rehashes the same tired, refuted bilge as before. Here it is:

    *** w92 11/15 p. 7 The Cross—Symbol of Christianity? ***

    The Cross—Symbol of Christianity?

    FOR centuries multitudes have accepted the cross as a symbol of Christianity. But is it really? Many who have sincerely believed so are quite surprised to learn that the cross is not at all unique to Christendom. On the contrary, it has been widely used in non-Christian religions all over the world.

    For example, in the early 1500’s, as Hernán Cortés and his "Christian" army prepared to attack the Aztec Empire‚ they carried banners proclaiming, "Let us follow the sign of the Holy Cross in true faith, for under this sign we shall conquer." They must have been surprised to find that their pagan enemies venerated a cross not unlike their own. The book Great Religions of the World says: "Cortés and his followers recoiled from human sacrifices of the Aztecs and what seemed like satanic parodies of Christianity: . . . venerating crosslike symbols of wind and rain gods."

    In an editorial in the newspaper La Nación, writer José Alberto Furque points out that in the second half of the 18th century, there began "a fiery and exciting debate among anthropologists and archaeologists on the origins and meaning of the cruciform signs" they were finding across much of Central and South America. Apparently some had been so eager to protect the status of the cross as a uniquely "Christian" symbol that they propounded the theory that somehow the Americas had been evangelized before Columbus’ landmark voyage! This farfetched notion had to be discarded as unfounded.

    In time, further discoveries in the field put all such debate to rest. Furque notes: "In a work published in 1893 by the Smithsonian Institution, it was established that the cross was already venerated . . . long before the arrival of the first Europeans in North America‚ which confirms the theory . . . that such a symbol appeared in all communities as part of cultic worship of the forces that originate life."

    The Bible shows that Jesus was not executed on a conventional cross at all but, rather, on a simple stake, or stau·ros´. This Greek word, appearing at Matthew 27:40‚ basically means a simple upright beam or pole, such as those used in building foundations. Hence, the cross never represented true Christianity. Jesus Christ identified the real symbol, or "mark," of true Christianity when he told his followers: "By this all will know that you are my disciples‚ if you have love among yourselves."—John 13:35.

    *** w95 5/15 p. 20 Part 1—Flashes of Light—Great and Small ***

    The Cross—Not a Christian Symbol

    19

    For many years the Bible Students made the cross prominent as a symbol of Christianity. They even had a "cross-and-crown" pin. According to the King James Version, Jesus asked his followers to take up their "cross," and many came to believe that he was executed on a cross. (Matthew 16:24; 27:32) For decades this symbol also appeared on the cover of the Watch Tower magazine.

    20

    The book Riches, published by the Society in 1936, made clear that Jesus Christ was executed, not on a cross, but on an upright pole, or stake. According to one authority, the Greek word (stau·ros´) rendered "cross" in the King James Version "denotes, primarily, an upright pale or stake. [It is] to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed cross. . . . The latter had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz." Far from being idolized, the instrument on which Jesus was impaled should be viewed with revulsion.

    19, 20. Why can the cross not be a symbol of true Christianity?

    *** rq (What Does God Require of Us?) lesson 11 p. 23 par. 6 Beliefs and Customs That Displease God ***

    6. Cross: Jesus did not die on a cross. He died on a pole, or a stake. The Greek word translated "cross" in many Bibles meant just one piece of timber. The symbol of the cross comes from ancient false religions. The cross was not used or worshiped by the early Christians. Therefore, do you think it would be right to use a cross in worship?—Deuteronomy 7:26; 1 Corinthians 10:14.

    *** bh (What Does the Bible Really Teach?) pp. 204-206 Why True Christians Do Not Use the Cross in Worship ***

    Why True Christians Do Not Use the Cross in Worship

    THE cross is loved and respected by millions of people. The Encyclopædia Britannica calls the cross "the principal symbol of the Christian religion." Nevertheless, true Christians do not use the cross in worship. Why not?

    An important reason is that Jesus Christ did not die on a cross. The Greek word generally translated "cross" is stau·ros´. It basically means "an upright pale or stake." The Companion Bible points out: "[Stau·ros´] never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle . . . There is nothing in the Greek of the [New Testament] even to imply two pieces of timber."

    In several texts, Bible writers use another word for the instrument of Jesus’ death. It is the Greek word xy´lon. (Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; Galatians 3:13; 1 Peter 2:24) This word simply means "timber" or "a stick, club, or tree."

    Explaining why a simple stake was often used for executions, the book Das Kreuz und die Kreuzigung (The Cross and the Crucifixion), by Hermann Fulda, states: "Trees were not everywhere available at the places chosen for public execution. So a simple beam was sunk into the ground. On this the outlaws, with hands raised upward and often also with their feet, were bound or nailed."

    The most convincing proof of all, however, comes from God’s Word. The apostle Paul says: "Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: ‘Accursed is every man hanged upon a stake ["a tree," King James Version].’" (Galatians 3:13) Here Paul quotes Deuteronomy 21:22, 23, which clearly refers to a stake, not a cross. Since such a means of execution made the person "a curse," it would not be proper for Christians to decorate their homes with images of Christ impaled.

    There is no evidence that for the first 300 years after Christ’s death, those claiming to be Christians used the cross in worship. In the fourth century, however, pagan Emperor Constantine became a convert to apostate Christianity and promoted the cross as its symbol. Whatever Constantine’s motives, the cross had nothing to do with Jesus Christ. The cross is, in fact, pagan in origin. The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "The cross is found in both pre-Christian and non-Christian cultures." Various other authorities have linked the cross with nature worship and pagan sex rites.

    Why, then, was this pagan symbol promoted? Apparently, to make it easier for pagans to accept "Christianity." Nevertheless, devotion to any pagan symbol is clearly condemned by the Bible. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18) The Scriptures also forbid all forms of idolatry. (Exodus 20:4, 5; 1 Corinthians 10:14) With very good reason, therefore, true Christians do not use the cross in worship.

    [Footnote]

    For a more detailed discussion of the cross, see pages 89-93 of the book Reasoning From the Scriptures, published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    Robert V Frazier

  • DJ
    DJ

    Wow, this is an older thread. I'm glad it was bumped because I don't remember ever seeing it.

    Good job truthseeker.

    The deception of the tower knows no limits, has no conscience, and cares not for the r&f who blindly follow whatever they publish. They are ravenous wolves who know full well what they are doing when they write this stuff.

    The infamous elipses.... are always a signal to the reader to proceed with extreme caution. The funny thing is, as a dub I never really noticed the elipses, and even if I did, I would have taken it for granted that they were just filtering out extra information for us. I never would have dreamed that they were omitting the most crucial part of the text that proved them to be wrong in order to misinform us!

    This same depeption of omission in quoting technique was used in the "Should you Believe in the Trinity" brochure. They misquoted the Early Church Fathers repeatedly as well as the bible scholars,and to top it off, they quoted atheists in such a way that one would never realize that they were atheists. It got so bad that I had to ask myself, why? Why did they go to such great lengths to misinform us by bending, twisting, and omitting the original writings? I think that we all know the answer to that now. They practice to deceive.

    The same holds true for the bracket insertions in Colossians and elsewhere in the nwt. As a dub I thought that I had it all going on, and that everyone else was deceived. It's quite the shocker to realize that the exact opposite is true, but I'm a happy camper since I've found the only truth in Jesus.

  • just2sheep
    just2sheep

    one of the questions i've had about this subject is the use of the word impale. i believe the word has a specific definition and that it has nothing to do with nailing anything to anything...depending on my memory and something i read about vlad the impaler, the supposed real life dracula, when one was impaled they were placed on the sharp end of a stake in sitting position, the stake entered the obvious orifice and continued till you were dead, thus it was a true "torture stake". i have never seen this mentioned by anyone, although i can see why you wouldn't want to wear this image or have it hanging on your wall in black velvet, but i don't do these things anyway so maybe some people wouldn't mind at all. can someone, leolaia perhaps, please address this question---was jesus nailed, as scripture seems to say, or was he impaled in the manner i've suggested. or is it possible for nailed and impaled to have the same meaning? j2s

  • just2sheep
    just2sheep

    bttt

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    J2S,

    This has been discussed before, and from what I remember it seems that the WT use of "to impale" is indeed incorrect as far as English usage is concerned -- I'm not the best authority as English is only a second language to me. What I remember from the time (long ago) when I used to translate WT literature into French is that we would never translate "to impale" by "empaler" which would have been the natural equivalent, because in French the latter couldn't mean anything but the supplice you described -- certainly not "nail to a stake" as the WT implies. I somehow imagined, back then, that the WT use of "to impale" might reflect some ancient English usage but it doesn't seem to be the case.

  • just2sheep
    just2sheep

    thanks narkissos,

    i wasn't sure whether the definition that i had picked up along the way was the only one. because of the nature of the reference to vlad the impaler it has always been a kinda vivid word to me and i have never been really comfortable with the wtb&ts' use of it, maybe now i can relax about it.

    j2s

  • purplesofa
    purplesofa

    bttt

  • musky
    musky

    I am not concerned that much with whether Christ died on a cross or a torture stake. I feel that it is like if a loved one is murdered by a gunshot and then hearing different theories as to what type of gun was used. It still wouldn't change how I felt about what happened. I guess its always nice to know the truth though.

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    btt

  • My Struggle
    My Struggle

    another great thread about the cross

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